Envoy to get 100% flow to AA.
07-09-2015 | 05:52 AM
#212
With the Rebel Forces.
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
From: Observing
.......
As long as Ric Wilson runs the show, it is never a good time to be an Envoy pilot.
Want minimum days off with minimum pay and large sits? Uncommutable 4 day trips (the only trip options now)? Then Envoy is the place for you.
Like hostile work environments? Then you will love Envoy.
Come to the airline where your own VP Flight Ops hates his own pilots, restricts flow, and makes industry bottom QOL policies.
Call now, the operators are waiting!
Want minimum days off with minimum pay and large sits? Uncommutable 4 day trips (the only trip options now)? Then Envoy is the place for you.
Like hostile work environments? Then you will love Envoy.
Come to the airline where your own VP Flight Ops hates his own pilots, restricts flow, and makes industry bottom QOL policies.
Call now, the operators are waiting!
07-10-2015 | 08:35 PM
#213
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
If envoy is over staffed? Why not furlough?
Why not furlough? I mean if we are so severely over staffed here at envoy why not cut the fat? If we only need 1500 pilots and are sitting around 2100 ish why keep paying people to sit around? Did big brother tell us not to furlough so we can't have 100% of the AA class slots? Why the _ _ _ _ are they keeping pilots here on crappy pay scales and terrible QOL then? Cutting 600 reserve pilots sure makes way more sense than paying all those wages/benefits/taxes/etc. Envoy isn't even allowed to manage itself, there are so many restrictions imposed on us by big brother there really is no need to have any mangers with the exception of what's required by the operating certificate. There is so much organizational dysfunction in the middle and upper management ranks, we basically work under a bunch megalomaniacal sociopaths.
They absolutely enjoy tearing apart their employee groups and turning them upon one another, it's a sick game to them, AND THEY LAUGH ABOUT IT! You wouldn't believe the amount of callous, childish, and condescending remarks made of the pilot group while in earshot of upper management and their middle managers. They don't respect you or your professionalism as an aviator, they don't GAF if you saved lives or prevented a major catastrophe. You are viewed as a cost and a liability to this organization. The only "gets," are made for when it makes productivity and efficiency better for them.
The company has no reason to be hiring anyone right now, they should be furloughing. Don't talk to an Envoy recruiter, find a few regular line pilots and get a copy of our contract. AAG is only giving us snippets of flying until PSA and MESA catch up with their training or until they screw the pooch and cause a loss of life accident that would make them a higher liability(cost) to utilize. Even if all these 1000 hour TPIC wonders kill somebody, as long as it's still cheap AAG won't GAF.
Right now 4-5 year FOs and CA are commuting the day prior and after to reserve and hard lines. Max days off are 11 for reserve and now pretty much most hard lines are below 72 hour min guarantee with a max of 12 days off unless you are senior. 50%-60% of the pilots for the ENTIRE airline will be on reserve in August. Right now there is no hope and no future for this airline until we LOSE another 600-800 pilots. After we shrink that much we'll have moved through enough 16 year plus CA that the upgrade times may start dropping. Don't expect much movement here until 2017. By that time all those new hires at PSA and Mesa will have upgraded and collected their 1,000 TPIC and flowed to AA ahead of us (due to their MEC negotiating a new flow through deal with AA), or the little tykes will have moved onto at least one of the big four.
Do your career a favor and let this ship sink until the bilge pumps kick in. The upgrade/flow through wave is nowhere on the horizon or registering on the radar/sonar/seismograph/whatever. AAG will need us around in the future for leverage against PSA, Mesa, PDT, AWAC, XJT, SKW, RAH, and whoever else they need to whipsaw in the future. So if your qualified and looking for a job now, go somewhere else, otherwise if we're still around in 2017 this might not be a bad place, because there won't be enough around to remember all the times AAG took us to poundtown on the f*!& truck!
They absolutely enjoy tearing apart their employee groups and turning them upon one another, it's a sick game to them, AND THEY LAUGH ABOUT IT! You wouldn't believe the amount of callous, childish, and condescending remarks made of the pilot group while in earshot of upper management and their middle managers. They don't respect you or your professionalism as an aviator, they don't GAF if you saved lives or prevented a major catastrophe. You are viewed as a cost and a liability to this organization. The only "gets," are made for when it makes productivity and efficiency better for them.
The company has no reason to be hiring anyone right now, they should be furloughing. Don't talk to an Envoy recruiter, find a few regular line pilots and get a copy of our contract. AAG is only giving us snippets of flying until PSA and MESA catch up with their training or until they screw the pooch and cause a loss of life accident that would make them a higher liability(cost) to utilize. Even if all these 1000 hour TPIC wonders kill somebody, as long as it's still cheap AAG won't GAF.
Right now 4-5 year FOs and CA are commuting the day prior and after to reserve and hard lines. Max days off are 11 for reserve and now pretty much most hard lines are below 72 hour min guarantee with a max of 12 days off unless you are senior. 50%-60% of the pilots for the ENTIRE airline will be on reserve in August. Right now there is no hope and no future for this airline until we LOSE another 600-800 pilots. After we shrink that much we'll have moved through enough 16 year plus CA that the upgrade times may start dropping. Don't expect much movement here until 2017. By that time all those new hires at PSA and Mesa will have upgraded and collected their 1,000 TPIC and flowed to AA ahead of us (due to their MEC negotiating a new flow through deal with AA), or the little tykes will have moved onto at least one of the big four.
Do your career a favor and let this ship sink until the bilge pumps kick in. The upgrade/flow through wave is nowhere on the horizon or registering on the radar/sonar/seismograph/whatever. AAG will need us around in the future for leverage against PSA, Mesa, PDT, AWAC, XJT, SKW, RAH, and whoever else they need to whipsaw in the future. So if your qualified and looking for a job now, go somewhere else, otherwise if we're still around in 2017 this might not be a bad place, because there won't be enough around to remember all the times AAG took us to poundtown on the f*!& truck!
07-11-2015 | 03:41 AM
#214
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
From: 737 FO
As bad as things have gotten here, with no meaningful end in sight, don't recommend new hires go to bottomfeeders like PSA/ Mesa/ etc. It validates their business model and puts further pressure on the the better regionals to meet their (lack of) pay and QOL.
We've already got a Mesa mgr here who'd like to reinvent us in their image.��
We've already got a Mesa mgr here who'd like to reinvent us in their image.��
07-11-2015 | 04:16 AM
#215
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Why not furlough? I mean if we are so severely over staffed here at envoy why not cut the fat? If we only need 1500 pilots and are sitting around 2100 ish why keep paying people to sit around? Did big brother tell us not to furlough so we can't have 100% of the AA class slots? Why the _ _ _ _ are they keeping pilots here on crappy pay scales and terrible QOL then? Cutting 600 reserve pilots sure makes way more sense than paying all those wages/benefits/taxes/etc. Envoy isn't even allowed to manage itself, there are so many restrictions imposed on us by big brother there really is no need to have any mangers with the exception of what's required by the operating certificate. There is so much organizational dysfunction in the middle and upper management ranks, we basically work under a bunch megalomaniacal sociopaths.
They absolutely enjoy tearing apart their employee groups and turning them upon one another, it's a sick game to them, AND THEY LAUGH ABOUT IT! You wouldn't believe the amount of callous, childish, and condescending remarks made of the pilot group while in earshot of upper management and their middle managers. They don't respect you or your professionalism as an aviator, they don't GAF if you saved lives or prevented a major catastrophe. You are viewed as a cost and a liability to this organization. The only "gets," are made for when it makes productivity and efficiency better for them.
The company has no reason to be hiring anyone right now, they should be furloughing. Don't talk to an Envoy recruiter, find a few regular line pilots and get a copy of our contract. AAG is only giving us snippets of flying until PSA and MESA catch up with their training or until they screw the pooch and cause a loss of life accident that would make them a higher liability(cost) to utilize. Even if all these 1000 hour TPIC wonders kill somebody, as long as it's still cheap AAG won't GAF.
Right now 4-5 year FOs and CA are commuting the day prior and after to reserve and hard lines. Max days off are 11 for reserve and now pretty much most hard lines are below 72 hour min guarantee with a max of 12 days off unless you are senior. 50%-60% of the pilots for the ENTIRE airline will be on reserve in August. Right now there is no hope and no future for this airline until we LOSE another 600-800 pilots. After we shrink that much we'll have moved through enough 16 year plus CA that the upgrade times may start dropping. Don't expect much movement here until 2017. By that time all those new hires at PSA and Mesa will have upgraded and collected their 1,000 TPIC and flowed to AA ahead of us (due to their MEC negotiating a new flow through deal with AA), or the little tykes will have moved onto at least one of the big four.
Do your career a favor and let this ship sink until the bilge pumps kick in. The upgrade/flow through wave is nowhere on the horizon or registering on the radar/sonar/seismograph/whatever. AAG will need us around in the future for leverage against PSA, Mesa, PDT, AWAC, XJT, SKW, RAH, and whoever else they need to whipsaw in the future. So if your qualified and looking for a job now, go somewhere else, otherwise if we're still around in 2017 this might not be a bad place, because there won't be enough around to remember all the times AAG took us to poundtown on the f*!& truck!
They absolutely enjoy tearing apart their employee groups and turning them upon one another, it's a sick game to them, AND THEY LAUGH ABOUT IT! You wouldn't believe the amount of callous, childish, and condescending remarks made of the pilot group while in earshot of upper management and their middle managers. They don't respect you or your professionalism as an aviator, they don't GAF if you saved lives or prevented a major catastrophe. You are viewed as a cost and a liability to this organization. The only "gets," are made for when it makes productivity and efficiency better for them.
The company has no reason to be hiring anyone right now, they should be furloughing. Don't talk to an Envoy recruiter, find a few regular line pilots and get a copy of our contract. AAG is only giving us snippets of flying until PSA and MESA catch up with their training or until they screw the pooch and cause a loss of life accident that would make them a higher liability(cost) to utilize. Even if all these 1000 hour TPIC wonders kill somebody, as long as it's still cheap AAG won't GAF.
Right now 4-5 year FOs and CA are commuting the day prior and after to reserve and hard lines. Max days off are 11 for reserve and now pretty much most hard lines are below 72 hour min guarantee with a max of 12 days off unless you are senior. 50%-60% of the pilots for the ENTIRE airline will be on reserve in August. Right now there is no hope and no future for this airline until we LOSE another 600-800 pilots. After we shrink that much we'll have moved through enough 16 year plus CA that the upgrade times may start dropping. Don't expect much movement here until 2017. By that time all those new hires at PSA and Mesa will have upgraded and collected their 1,000 TPIC and flowed to AA ahead of us (due to their MEC negotiating a new flow through deal with AA), or the little tykes will have moved onto at least one of the big four.
Do your career a favor and let this ship sink until the bilge pumps kick in. The upgrade/flow through wave is nowhere on the horizon or registering on the radar/sonar/seismograph/whatever. AAG will need us around in the future for leverage against PSA, Mesa, PDT, AWAC, XJT, SKW, RAH, and whoever else they need to whipsaw in the future. So if your qualified and looking for a job now, go somewhere else, otherwise if we're still around in 2017 this might not be a bad place, because there won't be enough around to remember all the times AAG took us to poundtown on the f*!& truck!
07-12-2015 | 04:37 PM
#216
On Reserve
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
From: 320 fo
No time/part time lines
Now ric Wilson has decided to offer us the ability to only work half a month at 1/2 pay to take care of over staffing Brilliant April May was almost all %200 OT because they were so short now sit home with no pay Hopefully a few guys can take advantage(that's you senior guys) hint hint so the rest of us can afford our bills on 69 hr lines
07-12-2015 | 05:32 PM
#217
Banned
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,137
Likes: 0
Why not furlough? I mean if we are so severely over staffed here at envoy why not cut the fat? If we only need 1500 pilots and are sitting around 2100 ish why keep paying people to sit around? Did big brother tell us not to furlough so we can't have 100% of the AA class slots? Why the _ _ _ _ are they keeping pilots here on crappy pay scales and terrible QOL then? Cutting 600 reserve pilots sure makes way more sense than paying all those wages/benefits/taxes/etc. Envoy isn't even allowed to manage itself, there are so many restrictions imposed on us by big brother there really is no need to have any mangers with the exception of what's required by the operating certificate. There is so much organizational dysfunction in the middle and upper management ranks, we basically work under a bunch megalomaniacal sociopaths.
They absolutely enjoy tearing apart their employee groups and turning them upon one another, it's a sick game to them, AND THEY LAUGH ABOUT IT! You wouldn't believe the amount of callous, childish, and condescending remarks made of the pilot group while in earshot of upper management and their middle managers. They don't respect you or your professionalism as an aviator, they don't GAF if you saved lives or prevented a major catastrophe. You are viewed as a cost and a liability to this organization. The only "gets," are made for when it makes productivity and efficiency better for them.
The company has no reason to be hiring anyone right now, they should be furloughing. Don't talk to an Envoy recruiter, find a few regular line pilots and get a copy of our contract. AAG is only giving us snippets of flying until PSA and MESA catch up with their training or until they screw the pooch and cause a loss of life accident that would make them a higher liability(cost) to utilize. Even if all these 1000 hour TPIC wonders kill somebody, as long as it's still cheap AAG won't GAF.
Right now 4-5 year FOs and CA are commuting the day prior and after to reserve and hard lines. Max days off are 11 for reserve and now pretty much most hard lines are below 72 hour min guarantee with a max of 12 days off unless you are senior. 50%-60% of the pilots for the ENTIRE airline will be on reserve in August. Right now there is no hope and no future for this airline until we LOSE another 600-800 pilots. After we shrink that much we'll have moved through enough 16 year plus CA that the upgrade times may start dropping. Don't expect much movement here until 2017. By that time all those new hires at PSA and Mesa will have upgraded and collected their 1,000 TPIC and flowed to AA ahead of us (due to their MEC negotiating a new flow through deal with AA), or the little tykes will have moved onto at least one of the big four.
Do your career a favor and let this ship sink until the bilge pumps kick in. The upgrade/flow through wave is nowhere on the horizon or registering on the radar/sonar/seismograph/whatever. AAG will need us around in the future for leverage against PSA, Mesa, PDT, AWAC, XJT, SKW, RAH, and whoever else they need to whipsaw in the future. So if your qualified and looking for a job now, go somewhere else, otherwise if we're still around in 2017 this might not be a bad place, because there won't be enough around to remember all the times AAG took us to poundtown on the f*!& truck!
They absolutely enjoy tearing apart their employee groups and turning them upon one another, it's a sick game to them, AND THEY LAUGH ABOUT IT! You wouldn't believe the amount of callous, childish, and condescending remarks made of the pilot group while in earshot of upper management and their middle managers. They don't respect you or your professionalism as an aviator, they don't GAF if you saved lives or prevented a major catastrophe. You are viewed as a cost and a liability to this organization. The only "gets," are made for when it makes productivity and efficiency better for them.
The company has no reason to be hiring anyone right now, they should be furloughing. Don't talk to an Envoy recruiter, find a few regular line pilots and get a copy of our contract. AAG is only giving us snippets of flying until PSA and MESA catch up with their training or until they screw the pooch and cause a loss of life accident that would make them a higher liability(cost) to utilize. Even if all these 1000 hour TPIC wonders kill somebody, as long as it's still cheap AAG won't GAF.
Right now 4-5 year FOs and CA are commuting the day prior and after to reserve and hard lines. Max days off are 11 for reserve and now pretty much most hard lines are below 72 hour min guarantee with a max of 12 days off unless you are senior. 50%-60% of the pilots for the ENTIRE airline will be on reserve in August. Right now there is no hope and no future for this airline until we LOSE another 600-800 pilots. After we shrink that much we'll have moved through enough 16 year plus CA that the upgrade times may start dropping. Don't expect much movement here until 2017. By that time all those new hires at PSA and Mesa will have upgraded and collected their 1,000 TPIC and flowed to AA ahead of us (due to their MEC negotiating a new flow through deal with AA), or the little tykes will have moved onto at least one of the big four.
Do your career a favor and let this ship sink until the bilge pumps kick in. The upgrade/flow through wave is nowhere on the horizon or registering on the radar/sonar/seismograph/whatever. AAG will need us around in the future for leverage against PSA, Mesa, PDT, AWAC, XJT, SKW, RAH, and whoever else they need to whipsaw in the future. So if your qualified and looking for a job now, go somewhere else, otherwise if we're still around in 2017 this might not be a bad place, because there won't be enough around to remember all the times AAG took us to poundtown on the f*!& truck!
Last edited by FirstClass; 07-12-2015 at 05:45 PM.
07-12-2015 | 06:04 PM
#218
With the Rebel Forces.
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
From: Observing
......
Calling the idiots that "manage" the regional side of aag sociopaths doesn't quite hit the mark. Sure, they get by with some shady sh!t, but they don't think up these things by themselves. No, not at all. They have a master puppeteer much higher up the food chain that does the actual thinking and planning.
What you've got over there on the regional side, for the most part, are a bunch of homosexual, head nodding, mental voids who have been fired from every other place and there's no where else they can work and nothing else they could do. Complete foul ups, if you will.
They're just looking forward to the next company Wesson oil party, none of the rest of that airline runnin stuff matters.
What you've got over there on the regional side, for the most part, are a bunch of homosexual, head nodding, mental voids who have been fired from every other place and there's no where else they can work and nothing else they could do. Complete foul ups, if you will.
They're just looking forward to the next company Wesson oil party, none of the rest of that airline runnin stuff matters.
07-12-2015 | 07:22 PM
#219
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Quit carrying their water...
When Cujo first started during the bankruptcy contract, exposing the "snack packers," hard nosing the company, calling every CA in New York to get their opinion on the TA, I was proud to be represented by both him and SP. I was a big believer in "Not carrying the company's water." If the company wants to make it better then let them be responsible for attracting new hires. Instead the company comes out and says "Well, the reason we can't attract new hires is because of too much bad publicity from the pilot group." Now they want us to accept being f!?#ed over and now tell everyone HOW MUCH WE LIKE IT?!?!?! Lately though, touting RW's upgrade and flow through numbers violates the whole "Carry the company's water mantra." AAG has turned the MEC into full on water or "kool-aid" carrying Sherpa.
If you have a family to support, somebody relying on you for this job and try to be an LEC rep, they will crush you. I've watched too many union reps from across the battlefield fall under the oppressive weight of AAG (once AMR). At the same time without having those that depend upon you, how would you know what to fight and stand for? Aside from being attacked by the company, they always end up being attacked and dismembered by the ones they are trying to help.
With our meager and paltry ALPA association, trying to fight AAG is like trying to kill a rampaging Grizzly bear with a nerf gun...
So my point is "Quit carrying their f!?#%ng water and let their words and actions stand on their own merit!" If they want the pilot group to quit telling everyone how terrible a place it is to work...THEN QUIT MAKING IT A TERRIBLE PLACE TO WORK!
If you have a family to support, somebody relying on you for this job and try to be an LEC rep, they will crush you. I've watched too many union reps from across the battlefield fall under the oppressive weight of AAG (once AMR). At the same time without having those that depend upon you, how would you know what to fight and stand for? Aside from being attacked by the company, they always end up being attacked and dismembered by the ones they are trying to help.
With our meager and paltry ALPA association, trying to fight AAG is like trying to kill a rampaging Grizzly bear with a nerf gun...
So my point is "Quit carrying their f!?#%ng water and let their words and actions stand on their own merit!" If they want the pilot group to quit telling everyone how terrible a place it is to work...THEN QUIT MAKING IT A TERRIBLE PLACE TO WORK!
07-12-2015 | 08:48 PM
#220
With the Rebel Forces.
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 289
Likes: 0
From: Observing
.....
When Cujo first started during the bankruptcy contract, exposing the "snack packers," hard nosing the company, calling every CA in New York to get their opinion on the TA, I was proud to be represented by both him and SP. I was a big believer in "Not carrying the company's water." If the company wants to make it better then let them be responsible for attracting new hires. Instead the company comes out and says "Well, the reason we can't attract new hires is because of too much bad publicity from the pilot group." Now they want us to accept being f!?#ed over and now tell everyone HOW MUCH WE LIKE IT?!?!?! Lately though, touting RW's upgrade and flow through numbers violates the whole "Carry the company's water mantra." AAG has turned the MEC into full on water or "kool-aid" carrying Sherpa.
If you have a family to support, somebody relying on you for this job and try to be an LEC rep, they will crush you. I've watched too many union reps from across the battlefield fall under the oppressive weight of AAG (once AMR). At the same time without having those that depend upon you, how would you know what to fight and stand for? Aside from being attacked by the company, they always end up being attacked and dismembered by the ones they are trying to help.
With our meager and paltry ALPA association, trying to fight AAG is like trying to kill a rampaging Grizzly bear with a nerf gun...
So my point is "Quit carrying their f!?#%ng water and let their words and actions stand on their own merit!" If they want the pilot group to quit telling everyone how terrible a place it is to work...THEN QUIT MAKING IT A TERRIBLE PLACE TO WORK!
If you have a family to support, somebody relying on you for this job and try to be an LEC rep, they will crush you. I've watched too many union reps from across the battlefield fall under the oppressive weight of AAG (once AMR). At the same time without having those that depend upon you, how would you know what to fight and stand for? Aside from being attacked by the company, they always end up being attacked and dismembered by the ones they are trying to help.
With our meager and paltry ALPA association, trying to fight AAG is like trying to kill a rampaging Grizzly bear with a nerf gun...
So my point is "Quit carrying their f!?#%ng water and let their words and actions stand on their own merit!" If they want the pilot group to quit telling everyone how terrible a place it is to work...THEN QUIT MAKING IT A TERRIBLE PLACE TO WORK!
Well that, and I have a cool dream every now and then--something about landing that SAAB in a pasture near my house.
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