How Envoy's 5.5 Year Flowthrough Works
03-18-2016 | 02:50 PM
#121
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 540
Likes: 0
Another exceptionally boneheaded response by the smoke plume. Yes, I think most of today's Envoy pilots will flow faster then a decade and good for them. But promising anything is suckers bait from people higher up the pyramid scheme whose payoff depends on several layers of saps to to grease their payoff, you being one of them.
Look at Envoy. They are desperate for bodies already and are currently in an overstaffed situation. Envoy management doesn't know how to handle it if the bonuses aren't working so they resort to robo calls. Really? I'm gonna jump all over that one if I'm in the market for a regional.
They aren't getting pilots because most people realize the flow is BS and it would just take too long.
03-18-2016 | 03:46 PM
#122
Banned
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,137
Likes: 0
Another exceptionally boneheaded response by the smoke plume. Yes, I think most of today's Envoy pilots will flow faster then a decade and good for them. But promising anything is suckers bait from people higher up the pyramid scheme whose payoff depends on several layers of saps to to grease their payoff, you being one of them.
03-18-2016 | 04:00 PM
#123
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 833
Likes: 0
From: Feito no Brasil, CA
I've taken advantage of opportunities in life as they have presented themselves. I've never known what opportunities may come along. But what I haven't done is tied my identity as a person to my job, they are not one in the same. I keep my options open now and in the past. It's up to the airline to keep me as an employee, they owe me, not the other way around. If or when I don't feel it's worth it I'll just move on, but until then the job is filling open space in my life. I am enjoying the travel benefits though.
My, aren't we sliding from point to point? First we should stop complaining, next we need to time travel and make a few mil, now pilots are slaves to their identity. Let me know when you actually decide to stick to something.
You keep talking from a position of convenience. You can leave things as open ended as you do because you can afford to, as you have inferred. You act like everyone had a carbon copy of your life's opportunities, but somehow missed them. Please, continue manufacturing everyone else's background to suit your personal narrative.
03-18-2016 | 04:06 PM
#124
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 833
Likes: 0
From: Feito no Brasil, CA
How Envoy's 5.5 Year Flowthrough Works
You were responding to FirstClass, but it feels like this is at least partly aimed at me. So allow me to retort...
The was no luck involved in my life choices. The path was clearly defined then, the same as it is today. Broadly speaking, go to college and get a degree in a MEANINGFUL major that will lead to solid, a high-paying job (ie. finance, engineering, etc). Work your butt off...STARTING IN HIGH SCHOOL...to distinguish yourself from your competition.
Luck = preparation + opportunity
If you aren't prepared when the opportunity comes along (either to recognize it or take advantage of it when it does), then you won't have any "luck".
In my case, then as now, a finance degree followed by going to Wall St. is a time-tested, well-worn, and well-known path to financial independence.
The REAL issue was, then as now, most kids don't want to work. Same for adults. And today, they expect to be rewarded for not doing a dam thing and are even now demanding that their college education be provided for free by taxpayers.
I'm sick and tired from hearing from the UNDER-ACHIEVERS who claim that anyone's success (other than a trust fund baby) was "luck". Bullcaca. And even then, a guy like Donald Trump WORKS HIS BUTT OFF. Say what you want to about Trump, but he works his tail off everyday.
The fact of the matter is, if you CHOSE not to go to college, if you CHOSE to fly for a living vs. getting a real job to start out, if you CAN'T afford a pay cut, if you are living paycheck to paycheck, and if you are NOT financially independent....it's because YOU CHOSE THAT PATH.
People need to balls up and take responsibility for their choices in life, especially the poor choices. And stop claiming others who made wiser choices than you were "lucky". Stop with the whiny, victimy bullcaca.
ANY natural-born US pilot flying 121 today could have gone to college, gotten a solid degree, and earned financial independence PRIOR to becoming a professional pilot. You don't get to look down upon those who did and call it "luck". You haven't earned the right to do that.
The was no luck involved in my life choices. The path was clearly defined then, the same as it is today. Broadly speaking, go to college and get a degree in a MEANINGFUL major that will lead to solid, a high-paying job (ie. finance, engineering, etc). Work your butt off...STARTING IN HIGH SCHOOL...to distinguish yourself from your competition.
Luck = preparation + opportunity
If you aren't prepared when the opportunity comes along (either to recognize it or take advantage of it when it does), then you won't have any "luck".
In my case, then as now, a finance degree followed by going to Wall St. is a time-tested, well-worn, and well-known path to financial independence.
The REAL issue was, then as now, most kids don't want to work. Same for adults. And today, they expect to be rewarded for not doing a dam thing and are even now demanding that their college education be provided for free by taxpayers.
I'm sick and tired from hearing from the UNDER-ACHIEVERS who claim that anyone's success (other than a trust fund baby) was "luck". Bullcaca. And even then, a guy like Donald Trump WORKS HIS BUTT OFF. Say what you want to about Trump, but he works his tail off everyday.
The fact of the matter is, if you CHOSE not to go to college, if you CHOSE to fly for a living vs. getting a real job to start out, if you CAN'T afford a pay cut, if you are living paycheck to paycheck, and if you are NOT financially independent....it's because YOU CHOSE THAT PATH.
People need to balls up and take responsibility for their choices in life, especially the poor choices. And stop claiming others who made wiser choices than you were "lucky". Stop with the whiny, victimy bullcaca.
ANY natural-born US pilot flying 121 today could have gone to college, gotten a solid degree, and earned financial independence PRIOR to becoming a professional pilot. You don't get to look down upon those who did and call it "luck". You haven't earned the right to do that.
Whoa, buddy... It wasn't aimed at you. But it seems that maybe some of what I've been saying might apply to your attitude as well. Read what I've been saying. Seems successful people around the Internet often have a hard time with that fact that everyone's life is different and we're not all a bunch of Gordon Gekko clones.
03-18-2016 | 05:12 PM
#125
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Likes: 0
Did you really expect anything other than a boneheaded response from this guy? I'm not even sure if someone hired at Envoy today will flow more quickly than someone hired in 01. When they turn down the flow spigot late this year to just a few each month, flow times again increase exponentially.
Look at Envoy. They are desperate for bodies already and are currently in an overstaffed situation. Envoy management doesn't know how to handle it if the bonuses aren't working so they resort to robo calls. Really? I'm gonna jump all over that one if I'm in the market for a regional.
They aren't getting pilots because most people realize the flow is BS and it would just take too long.
Look at Envoy. They are desperate for bodies already and are currently in an overstaffed situation. Envoy management doesn't know how to handle it if the bonuses aren't working so they resort to robo calls. Really? I'm gonna jump all over that one if I'm in the market for a regional.
They aren't getting pilots because most people realize the flow is BS and it would just take too long.
The flow might indeed be a "nice back-up", but most pilots would IMO have just as good a table bet with faster PIC time to be more competitive at the other legacies, LCC's and premium freight operators like FedEx and UPS as an un-cashed theoretical lottery ticket to the aerial Walmart. The few characters here ALL have the same M.O., that is they cannot refute the realities and so the only option is what they believe to be a "rope-a-dope" strategy of deflection in the hope of muddying up the situation and luring in the simple-minded, non-critical thinkers. In ordinary times of the past, this would be an good strategy, but now there really ARE NO pilots to psychologically manipulate. This forum really isn't the panacea of pilot attraction some of them think and so it's amusing just how much effort is spent trying to make it relevant when all it does is provide fodder for rebuttal from pilots like us.
But, times are indeed bizarre and so are some of the players and so, let the good times roll and the entertainment continue................
03-18-2016 | 05:28 PM
#126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 894
Likes: 0
Why are you still on this regional forum anyway? Didn't you make it to the big leages with Allegiant? Lol. You should have plenty of your own problems over there to deal with now.
Last edited by RyanP; 03-18-2016 at 05:54 PM.
03-18-2016 | 06:20 PM
#127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 547
Likes: 0
You won't get an honest answer to a hypothetical question like that. They will all say 1st year pay raise and act smug. But I've been in the van with crews from other airlines. I've had them in my jumpseat, talked to them in the waiting room of the medical examiner's office, etc...
They all go wide eyed when I explain the details of Envoy's flow through. None of them are aware of how it actually works and think we still have to interview at some point. I've lost count how many of them have said something to the extent of "wish we had that at expressjet/mesa/republic"
But asking a hypothetical online? Yeah...you might as well put down a step stool to aid them in climbing up on their high horse.
They all go wide eyed when I explain the details of Envoy's flow through. None of them are aware of how it actually works and think we still have to interview at some point. I've lost count how many of them have said something to the extent of "wish we had that at expressjet/mesa/republic"
But asking a hypothetical online? Yeah...you might as well put down a step stool to aid them in climbing up on their high horse.
This has been my experience as well. In the real world, I can't tell you how many times I have had someone tell me that they wish they had a flow program. Even on APC, it comes down to only a handful of guys that desparage the flow so much. I believe the most of it is motivated by jealously, fear or justification of life/career choices.
If Ric would stop messing around with the class numbers and made sure that they NEVER flow less than 50% of a class and increase pay by $10 an hour for FOs at each pay step, they would get all the new hires they need. The longer they take to do this, the less affect such measures will have on recruitment. The sooner they do the two things above, the quicker the new pilots will get off reserve, upgrade and then flow. Once they consistantly EXCEED expectations when it comes to those 3 sought after items, the machine will perpetuate itself. Mesa is an excellant example of the powerful effect that the momentum of movement can have on an airline. The additional 5 pilots envoy flows today, will reap 10 times that many in the years to come.
It takes more energy to get a ball rolling but once you do, the it will require less energy then nudging the ball along little by little. Up until this point, they have only been nudging the ball.
03-18-2016 | 06:45 PM
#128
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
When will you be at the point (emotionally and financially) that you will be ready get off the Internet and get a life? If you have to wait 10 years, you will likely record your one-millionth post! Perhaps that is your goal, but I can assure you it is neither healthy for yourself or anyone else who has to read your daily useless rambles.
03-18-2016 | 07:21 PM
#129
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Likes: 0
An excellent first step would be for you to take responsibility for what you subject yourself to and put me on ignore if I upset you so greatly as I obviously do instead of demanding I conform to what you want me to be or not to be. Don't like my "useless rambles" ?
No problem. Grow up, put on your big boy pants and put me on ignore and then YOU can solve your obvious problem with me instead of demanding I solve it for you. If not, then accept there are others here with opinions you disagree with.
03-18-2016 | 07:26 PM
#130
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Likes: 0
This has been my experience as well. In the real world, I can't tell you how many times I have had someone tell me that they wish they had a flow program. Even on APC, it comes down to only a handful of guys that desparage the flow so much. I believe the most of it is motivated by jealously, fear or justification of life/career choices.
If Ric would stop messing around with the class numbers and made sure that they NEVER flow less than 50% of a class and increase pay by $10 an hour for FOs at each pay step, they would get all the new hires they need. The longer they take to do this, the less affect such measures will have on recruitment. The sooner they do the two things above, the quicker the new pilots will get off reserve, upgrade and then flow. Once they consistantly EXCEED expectations when it comes to those 3 sought after items, the machine will perpetuate itself. Mesa is an excellant example of the powerful effect that the momentum of movement can have on an airline. The additional 5 pilots envoy flows today, will reap 10 times that many in the years to come.
It takes more energy to get a ball rolling but once you do, the it will require less energy then nudging the ball along little by little. Up until this point, they have only been nudging the ball.
If Ric would stop messing around with the class numbers and made sure that they NEVER flow less than 50% of a class and increase pay by $10 an hour for FOs at each pay step, they would get all the new hires they need. The longer they take to do this, the less affect such measures will have on recruitment. The sooner they do the two things above, the quicker the new pilots will get off reserve, upgrade and then flow. Once they consistantly EXCEED expectations when it comes to those 3 sought after items, the machine will perpetuate itself. Mesa is an excellant example of the powerful effect that the momentum of movement can have on an airline. The additional 5 pilots envoy flows today, will reap 10 times that many in the years to come.
It takes more energy to get a ball rolling but once you do, the it will require less energy then nudging the ball along little by little. Up until this point, they have only been nudging the ball.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
