^Says the guy who flowed! Now that is worth a laugh!

So let's see...explaining that our flow provides our pilots the opportunity to start class at AA with no interview, no medical, just show up to class like it's a base transfer....those are the facts as we present them. The numbers are also FACTS. I know "facts" don't mean anything to you...since you have to place an asterisk on any commentary you make and provide your OPINION on how things won't work out. You saying that the flow will stop because of this or that is OPINION. Hate to break it to you...it doesn't matter how sure of yourself you are.

No, the only funny thing here is how you will soon have more posts online than actual flight time at AA. You are talking about retirement? Dear God help us all when you retire...the entire Regional front page will be wall to wall eaglefly posts about Envoy.

 

My point exactly and thanks for proving it. The only "numbers" that are facts are those in the past, not looking forward. Those are "projections"...........er, actually "suggestions" as you or your alter-ego, the smoke plume have stated before. The suggestions about the future are also OPINIONS by you and others, Mr. Pot. Sure of myself ?

Not that right there is funny. If only I was half as sure as the B.S. you spout about future projections being "facts" for other pilots to believe.

If anything you guys are predictable (one of your many weaknesses). I can ALWAYS count on you to muddy up issues with irrelevancy so as to deflect reality. Speaking of reality, the reality is that there are no 'FACTS" about the future, only YOUR opinion of what it holds, but by all means keep selling. How has that reality worked out for the last class ?

 

Christ you are a sad sack of vanity. Nobody begrudges you the fruits of your labor, nobody here is jealous of you, but we are getting pretty annoyed by your insults.

 

First I'd like to say that I don't believe AAG and Envoy management are doing enough to attract and retain pilots. They're going to have to offer more to keep this place staffed and the flow rolling. Recent actions have shown that maybe they are starting to realize this, and hopefully more improvements will follow. If the flow fails, then ufortunately I feel Envoy will as well, and I think management knows this as well.

Having said that, I know 580750 personally. This person is one of my favorite captains at Eag... err Envoy (ORDinary you're up there on the list, too .) Anyone who thinks that once they obtain 1-2000 hours turbine PIC a major will be calling is smoking something they aren't legally allowed to. This person has been ACTIVELY working hard to get out over the past several years: LCA, well over 5k TPIC, clean record, multiple job fairs/meet & greets, plenty of connections and letters of recommendation from pilots at majors (including LCAS and domicile chief pilots,) volunteer work, you name it. They have been told by recruiters on several occasions that "...you are exactly what we are looking for." In short, said pilot is a perfect candidate for a major, and exactly where I would want to position myself for a major. And yet, they didn't receive a single interview invite, and where are they going? American, via the flow.

To say the flow has little to no value, now or in the future, is ridiculous. This person is living proof of that. And the kicker is there are hundreds, if not thousands, of pilots out there who are equally qualified or better. Does the flow have as much value as AAG thinks it does? Personally I don't think so, and the lack of abundant new hires corroborates this. However, the Envoy-bashing and flow-hating parade on this forum is starting to become really tiresome. It is a solid backup plan for most and we're not all hanging our hats on it working exactly as planned.

While it is true that AAG COULD stop the flow due to staffing somewhere down the road, this is purely speculation and would undoubtedly lead to a staffing implosion as junior FOs start to bail. I could just as easily speculate that AAG will make the wholly owneds the only path to American and if you're not at a wholly owned you have no chance at American.

Envoy certainly has its problems, which have been repeated here ad naseum. I just can't figure out why some folks on here have to continually try to "prove" that the flow won't work in the future. Why do you care? I wonder what your true motivation is, besides "enlightening" the potential new hires? I'm sure you also "enlighten" them by giving facts, like Envoy sending roughly 500 pilots to American via the flow over the past 2 or so years, right? Again, Envoy is certainly not the perfect place to work, but the pilot group is awesome and as of today a new hire will have a future job secured at American. Why do some of you have such a hard-on for Envoy's failure?

 

Just an FEI, it appears the flow selection to arriving at AA gap is 2 months minimum. So, 580750 has been chosen, but will likely not set foot in an AA class until after the AA recalls are done. That's going to put a dent in cr700's predictions.

 

Yes, a two month dent. If you read the OP, you will see no attrition to OAL taken into consideration. So if you want to be picky, reduce my original post numbers by 10 months minimum and consider attrition to OAL also. I wanted to be conservative but obviously, you would rather me not.

 

Yes cr, you wanted to be conservative, but with the Letter T situation, it will be awhile before any flows resume unless AAG relents.

 

And this was all in my calculation. I used 3 months. Once again, a conservative number.

 

Just out of curiosity I strolled over to the regional forum to see what's happening. I think it provides a gauge of the industry as the regionals feel the effects before the majors.

You guys are talking new hire classes and I think that is critical to the flow. I found it very interesting that I was cold called to interview at Envoy last week a long with a few other guys I know that are not at any regional. I've never even filled out an app for Envoy but got called by a chief pilot for an interview. I hope you guys aren't banking on this program and continue to strengthen your resume anyway you can. Good luck.

 

What's that got to do with anything? Attrition has zero to do with how many make it to AA this year. My post was simply informational: Two months from selection to class date. That is all.

Now that you bring it up, we're still in limbo waiting to find out how many AA pilots are returning to meet the cutoff date in May. We'll also have to see if the training center has a slowdown in July, and closes the doors over the holiday season. All of that is going to affect how many actually make it to AA this year compared to the fluctuating numbers spammed by the company.

As for 2.5/6, oops, I mean 2.5/5, we'll just have to wait and see. It seems making this place miserable to work at and driving people away might just thin the seniority list is how they'll meet the target instead of actually flowing the required amount.