Originally Posted by RyanP

Jesus! I can just picture Eaglefly arguing with a freaking rock on the side of the road, just for the sake of arguing it and telling it that maybe it isn't really a rock. You will need to see the proof and hard evidence that it really is a rock! "Maybe Mr. Rock, you are just a hardened clump of dirt which is stuck together due to baseless mud and you will erode into nothing more than dust in a few weeks, possibly a month. I know the others around here are claiming you are certainly a rock and will be around for a long time. Clearly, they are desperately trying to sell you off as a being a rock, but I am not convinced. I think maybe you are a false scammer rock, trying to pass yourself off as a rock for your own personal gain and I shall expose it to the world. I am not buying this rock scam you are selling. I will need further evidence in writing from multiple sources of authority and of course a confirmation from the President of the Smithsonian Institute of Natural History to prove these baseless assumptions of all the other local jackal geologists, that you are indeed a rock".

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Originally Posted by ag386

No redirection there. RyanP presented projection numbers, just subtraction and had nothing to back it up. No new hires needed apparently. I'm helping him out here.

Originally Posted by SayAlt

Market forces may not leave him any choice in the matter. (See: hiring bonuses, etc.)

Originally Posted by RyanP

They only put out confirmed information for the next classes several weeks before hand. This is how they do it and will continue to do it. What do you expect us to provide you with? You know as well as I do that they will not assign class dates for everyone out into the future, in writing, signed by the President of the United States backed by the Federal government with an Insurance Policy secured by Gold Bricks in Ft Knox. No company in this industry has that kind of security with any claim or contract. All we know is what the arbitration award is, what they have been doing with flow numbers this year, how they have been honoring the deal, they honored the 30/mo change many people claimed would NEVER happen. We also know what the future hiring projections are and what mandatory retirement numbers look like. That is a good a projection as anyone can provide for anything in this industry with the information we have. Is it 100% guaranteed. Of course not. Nothing is. Could everything go to hell if they don't get new hires? Of course. Have they gotten to the point yet where they need to throw money at them or else? They are starting to. They have already done what everyone said would never happen here and very recently given a 20K bonus to our FO's. Given up to 15K bonus out to new hires. This is just the beginning.They said they will continue to do what they have to do to get people in the door. They are the largest airline in the world making billions of dollars, they can afford to get people here, they always wait until last minute. It's how they have operated for the past 15 years I have been watching this company do things.

There is no long term facts with an iron clad guarantee no matter what in this entire industry. Maybe we will all get furloughed. Oh well, back to a different career field where I made more money anyway. Maybe Earth will be hit by a giant meteor and it will land right on Envoy headquarters next year? Every regional airline could be out of business 6 months from now.. (or not). Why don't you go over to the Skywest or Frontier threads and tell them they may not be employed next year. Ask them to show you the guarantee that they will be! They are telling new hires they will be based in ORD and upgrade quick, OMG.. maybe they won't be if the airline goes out of business due to something happening, or they merge, or cancel orders, or don't get a contract! Those guys on those threads are SALESMAN!!! LIARS!!! Go after them, tell them the alternative universe plans if things don't go as planned!!!

Jesus! I can just picture Eaglefly arguing with a freaking rock on the side of the road, just for the sake of arguing it and telling it that maybe it isn't really a rock. You will need to see the proof and hard evidence that it really is a rock! "Maybe Mr. Rock, you are just a hardened clump of dirt which is stuck together due to baseless mud and you will erode into nothing more than dust in a few weeks, possibly a month. I know the others around here are claiming you are certainly a rock and will be around for a long time. Clearly, they are desperately trying to sell you off as a being a rock, but I am not convinced. I think maybe you are a false scammer rock, trying to pass yourself off as a rock for your own personal gain and I shall expose it to the world. I am not buying this rock scam you are selling. I will need further evidence in writing from multiple sources of authority and of course a confirmation from the President of the Smithsonian Institute of Natural History to prove these baseless assumptions of all the other local jackal geologists, that you are indeed a rock".

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Originally Posted by eaglefly

You wasted all that energy towards a rock ? Wow. Well, this rock was smart enough not to waste its time reading this emotional rant, so since I don't see myself arguing, I guess this is my way of throwing myself back from where I came from.

Originally Posted by AdiosMikeFox

Sorry, EF... That last paragraph by RP was spot on, and funny. Heaven knows, if the rock disappeared you'd turn your attentions to the earth it sat upon.

Originally Posted by AdiosMikeFox

That last paragraph by RP was spot on, and funny.

Originally Posted by RyanP

The group through next year doesn't need big amounts of new hires to flow, so I didn't include it. People after 2007/2008 will need new hires coming in to maintain the larger protected pilot flow #'s.. Then after 10/2011 it goes down to a smaller number of flows every month which is easier to maintain.

I never said they wouldn't need new hires coming in. Endeavor needs new hires, Skywest needs new hires, Mesa needs new hires.. They all do. Or they will all collapse. AA is the Largest airline in the world. Lots of money. Billions of dollars. They have said publicly on camera last month they know the new bonuses now aren't enough to compete with Endeavor. They weren't trying to compete with Endeavor W2's. They were trying to get more in the competitive range with more money+flow.. and if that doesn't work, in time, they will do more and they aren't going to let it fail. You can either believe them or not. I don't care. I doubt they just let their wholly owns fizzle out and die without throwing the money (they know will have to be paid eventually) at them first though. Right now they don't have to pay yet, so they aren't yet.