Itsajob

Show me where it says that an employee has to stay at a certain rate. The rates are tied to a position, not to the individual. They define a monetary value to a unit of work such as dollars per hour, day, or widget produced. A person in a captain slot earns X, and a person in a copilot slot earns Y. The company can’t alter the rates for those positions, but there is no requirement to keep a person in any category, they just can’t furlough. XJT is getting rid of all of their higher paying aircraft. Those people will go from 175 rates to 145 rates. Just like a captain being displaced back to first officer, the rates weren’t reduced, just the new position uses another previously existing rate.

Here is the text:

SEC. 4114. REQUIRED ASSURANCES.


(a) In General.—To be eligible for financial assistance under this subtitle, an air carrier or contractor shall enter into an agreement with the Secretary, or otherwise certify in such form and manner as the Secretary shall prescribe, that the air carrier or contractor shall—

(1) refrain from conducting involuntary furloughs or reducing pay rates and benefits until September 30, 2020;


Here are 2 examples:
1. Gate agents at a small airport earn $20/hour, that is their rate. Normally they work 40 hours per week and handle numerous flights spread out during the day. As a result of schedule reductions, they now only handle 2 flights, both in the morning. Due to this their hours are cut to 20 per week. Their paycheck is now less, but their rate remains unchanged.

2. A regional airlines finds out that the legacy who owns the planes that they fly is going to retire half of their fleet. The regional runs a big displacement and downgrades half of the captains, but does not furlough until October 1. Captain still pays $72/hr, and first officer still pays $42/hr. The displaced captains will now take home a smaller check, but they did not reduce the rates.

This only applies to a company that has received grant money. If XJT doesn’t get the money, all bets are off.

BRJPilot

No, that's not exactly what he said. What he said in the 1st town hall was “my guess is that the 50 seaters will be mostly gone by the end of this. Under almost any of these scenarios 50 seat flying will be a thing of the past”
He then walked that back a little more in a subsequent town hall. And he could have changed his mind a dozen times between then and now!
Oh, and the 756 fleet parking, is that permanent or just temporary?

ReadOnly7

I’m flying a 320 to Wichita next week.

Also Sacramento and Omaha later in the month. But you go ahead with your version.

Itsajob

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bTPnwTgd60

piloto2

I guess my big question is why all the mainline pilots are so F'ing interested in what's going on at the regional level. Or is it just the junior mainline guys who are going to be on the street in a few months that are here to stir up the pot? Misery loves company!

BRJPilot

All good points, but I don't think it's that cut and dry. The legislation was hastily drafted and is vague and open to interpretation. I wonder if liberal, pro labor congress critters will agree with the company's understanding of this. There will probably be a lawsuit or two before this is all over.

ReadOnly7

Can’t speak for others, but I check this sub-forum because I worked here for a really long time. I also think it’s fair to say that some of us are watching what happens at the regional level for two reasons.

1) We are concerned about a reduction in mainline flying due to an expansion of “regional” flying. (Quotation added because it’ll be long distance flights at regional pay)

2)Many of us would like to see as much of the flying brought back to mainline as possible....hopefully with as many pilots as possible. (I’m sure that sounds “mean”, but I wanted this when I worked at XJT. Long term, it would be best for everyone except the lifers.)

Itsajob

I didn’t work for XJT, but I agree with everything you mentioned. Basically, if it has United painted on the side, it has an impact on my job. I don’t want to stir the pot for sport, but I will ask questions or point things out that some people may not want to either face or answer.

avi8tor614

To mainline pilots and us regional pilots. With whatever "colors" is on the side of the plane. WE all have to remember one thing. These are "management" toys. They allow the mainliners to fly the big toys because obviously they need a workforce to do it. You are a pawn that does a service to make profit for the company. You benefit by good pay, awesome 401k, lifestyle, gold bars or whatever you deem is a great quality by working at mainline. I want that too. Us regional pilots fly for a different company but the same product (pax) with the "same" colors and are paid a lessor wage. We fly smaller management toys at a different pay rate than is negotiated for mainliners why? Because that is the price to play with "United" toys. United allows us and mainliner to play with thier toys whether owned or lease because they get something out of it. Cheaper labor, savings in money, or whatever the reason. I'm trying to get to any mainline at any cost, I have been for 20 YEARS. Some of us has done everything to play with the big toys. College degree, no DUIs, check airmen, no failures, great personality, never late or absent for work, tithes to God, ect and just don't make it. I realized that ten years ago. Everyone wont get to play with the big toys with the awesome beenies that come with it. To the two mainliners above me I'm happy for you and all my people that got thier I really am. Maybe you checked all the boxes or maybe you didn't does not matter! You made it, you were fortunate and lucky. I said all that to say this, that aircraft you fly with that awesome logo on the side is not yours or the union's. You are negotiated to fly them at an awesome wage by your union. I want that wage to. Working hard to get it. Come October 1st if you are below a certain percentage seniority at mainline you may not have a toy to play with and not get paid, I might and probably will. These are management toys, they paint them and decides who gets to play with them and how much they will give you to do so through negotiations of course. If any mainliner get furloughed at all October 1 and I'm still flying does it matter what color scheme is on the side of the plane, proves that management gets to decides who plays with thier toys in the best interest of "thier" company. If a regional pilot somewhere is flying while a mainliner is sitting on furlough proves my point Your job flying is decided by management not you or union. Like I said earlier I'm a pawn in this game and so are you (mainline) just trying to get through it. I don't care who signs the checks (Mesa signs mine but the money comes from AA and UAL) it's negotiated that only so many small toys can be in the sandbox. You worked hard to get to play with that big toy, you got it finally just to realize it can be taken back depending on your hire date. I'm super senior at my company my toys can be taken away to. United is trying save money so I'll be around for a little while hopefully. "We" mainliners included are all pawns here. I just hope October 1, WE ALL can do one thing be able to play with a toy with a nice logo on the side.

ReadOnly7

Agreed. I still hope you get hired at mainline. I also still want the quality of the mainline job to stay intact. When October comes, I WILL be furloughed. I accept it. I will scramble to find the best interim job I can. If that doesn’t work, I will come be YOUR FO, and do it without pride or arrogance. I have a family to feed. ONE thing will allow me to do that without crushing my soul.......the knowledge that I have a job at UAL to come back to, that’s WORTH coming back to. No concessions. No givebacks. No expansion of regional flying at the expense of mainline. Good luck to all, but mostly me. (That last one is a joke)