What's the Latest at ASA/Expressjet?
08-09-2013, 03:10 AM
#3941
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,951
Originally Posted by AtlCSIP
Of course nobody wants to mention the very large pay cut every one of them took in 2011 when each of us got a raise. If you look at the raise from 2010 to 2012, the percentages aren't so out of line. I am not suggesting we take a pay cut, but to be fair, we should realize that they did.
08-09-2013, 05:03 AM
#3942
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: PNF
Posts: 622
The question is... do you REALLY need 1.1 million a year? Its not like your previous jobs paid so little to make up for it. That's like 50 new hire F/Os or 30 upgrades.
08-09-2013, 05:30 AM
#3943
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: OH CA - Retired
Posts: 355
Originally Posted by yimke
The question is... do you REALLY need 1.1 million a year? Its not like your previous jobs paid so little to make up for it. That's like 50 new hire F/Os or 30 upgrades.
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."
So do you really "need" a new truck? There are people out there walking to work. Do you really "need" a bigger house? A boat?
You see, there are a lot of things that we as ordinary pilots don't really need, just like CEOs don't "need" $1.1 million in compensation. We are arguing about degrees. Who do you think should be the arbiter of what a person "needs?"
08-09-2013, 05:50 AM
#3944
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 126
Originally Posted by AtlCSIP
Of course nobody wants to mention the very large pay cut every one of them took in 2011 when each of us got a raise. If you look at the raise from 2010 to 2012, the percentages aren't so out of line. I am not suggesting we take a pay cut, but to be fair, we should realize that they did.
I dont even need a 44% increase. 7% a year will be fine.
There's my concession. You're welcome Surejet, glad I could help.
08-09-2013, 05:56 AM
#3945
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,951
Originally Posted by makersmarc
Whenever I hear someone opining whether someone "needs" a certain amount I am reminded of this quote:
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."
So do you really "need" a new truck? There are people out there walking to work. Do you really "need" a bigger house? A boat?
You see, there are a lot of things that we as ordinary pilots don't really need, just like CEOs don't "need" $1.1 million in compensation. We are arguing about degrees. Who do you think should be the arbiter of what a person "needs?"
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs."
So do you really "need" a new truck? There are people out there walking to work. Do you really "need" a bigger house? A boat?
You see, there are a lot of things that we as ordinary pilots don't really need, just like CEOs don't "need" $1.1 million in compensation. We are arguing about degrees. Who do you think should be the arbiter of what a person "needs?"
I like this one better:
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." - Abraham Lincoln
08-09-2013, 06:20 AM
#3946
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 344
Originally Posted by Captain Tony
Um... that's Karl Marx. Are you really advocating Communism? In defense of management? With an Abraham Lincoln avatar? I'm so confused.
I like this one better:
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." - Abraham Lincoln
I like this one better:
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." - Abraham Lincoln
08-09-2013, 06:24 AM
#3947
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: A-320
Posts: 6,929
Originally Posted by Captain Tony
Um... that's Karl Marx. Are you really advocating Communism? In defense of management? With an Abraham Lincoln avatar? I'm so confused.
I like this one better:
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." - Abraham Lincoln
I like this one better:
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." - Abraham Lincoln
I too love that quote but he was actually referring to Slavery, not quite the same thing as Unionized labor. Either way, great quote!
08-09-2013, 06:31 AM
#3948
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,951
Originally Posted by JoeyMeatballs
CA Tony,
I too love that quote but he was actually referring to Slavery, not quite the same thing as Unionized labor. Either way, great quote!
I too love that quote but he was actually referring to Slavery, not quite the same thing as Unionized labor. Either way, great quote!
08-09-2013, 06:40 AM
#3949
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 126
And to be clear, I don't expect any increase above inflation.
But it is a failure of management (verb) to be asking for concessions. It is the easy course of action for the good-for-nothing MBA types so full of "management theory" that are taking over American industry. Get a short-term cost savings today (to boost earnings or stock price or whatever) while actually dismantling the operation over the long term.
Each of us can cost or save the company more in ONE DAY of normal ops than any ANNUAL change in compensation that might be negotiated. And that is not doing anything unusual or out of the ordinary, just all the little things that are discretionary within SOP or not covered by SOP. No being "extra safe", nothing unusual - just day to day stuff that depends on our personal level of "give a $#!7". But none of those effects will show up on a spreadsheet.
The message from Management (noun), from Mainline management and to some extent from mainline members of our own union: you are not valued.
Read it again:
"Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed."
Management can be productive, can nurture strength, can make an operation better. More often, it is parasitic. Sometimes a symbiotic parasite, but ....
But it is a failure of management (verb) to be asking for concessions. It is the easy course of action for the good-for-nothing MBA types so full of "management theory" that are taking over American industry. Get a short-term cost savings today (to boost earnings or stock price or whatever) while actually dismantling the operation over the long term.
Each of us can cost or save the company more in ONE DAY of normal ops than any ANNUAL change in compensation that might be negotiated. And that is not doing anything unusual or out of the ordinary, just all the little things that are discretionary within SOP or not covered by SOP. No being "extra safe", nothing unusual - just day to day stuff that depends on our personal level of "give a $#!7". But none of those effects will show up on a spreadsheet.
The message from Management (noun), from Mainline management and to some extent from mainline members of our own union: you are not valued.
Read it again:
"Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed."
Management can be productive, can nurture strength, can make an operation better. More often, it is parasitic. Sometimes a symbiotic parasite, but ....
08-09-2013, 06:45 AM
#3950
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,951
Originally Posted by Leroy Smith
And to be clear, I don't expect any increase above inflation.
But it is a failure of management (verb) to be asking for concessions. It is the easy course of action for the good-for-nothing MBA types so full of "management theory" that are taking over American industry. Get a short-term cost savings today (to boost earnings or stock price or whatever) while actually dismantling the operation over the long term.
But it is a failure of management (verb) to be asking for concessions. It is the easy course of action for the good-for-nothing MBA types so full of "management theory" that are taking over American industry. Get a short-term cost savings today (to boost earnings or stock price or whatever) while actually dismantling the operation over the long term.
Originally Posted by Leroy Smith
Each of us can cost or save the company more in ONE DAY of normal ops than any ANNUAL change in compensation that might be negotiated. And that is not doing anything unusual or out of the ordinary, just all the little things that are discretionary within SOP or not covered by SOP. No being "extra safe", nothing unusual - just day to day stuff that depends on our personal level of "give a $#!7". But none of those effects will show up on a spreadsheet.
The message from Management (noun), from Mainline management and to some extent from mainline members of our own union: you are not valued.
Read it again:
"Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed."
Management can be productive, can nurture strength, can make an operation better. More often, it is parasitic. Sometimes a symbiotic parasite, but ....
The message from Management (noun), from Mainline management and to some extent from mainline members of our own union: you are not valued.
Read it again:
"Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed."
Management can be productive, can nurture strength, can make an operation better. More often, it is parasitic. Sometimes a symbiotic parasite, but ....
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