What's the Latest at ASA/Expressjet?
08-10-2013, 08:38 PM
#3981
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Originally Posted by AtlCSIP
Originally Posted by Nevets
My only point is that if they are getting pay raises, regardless of whether its 73% in one year or 24% between 2 years, I find that as a problem when they ask us for concessions. Your disagreement was that it was only 12% pay raise per year and that we all got raises the year that they took a one year pay cut (which they more than made up the following year). That is not fact. Many of us, mostly for those that make the least, FOs, didn't get a pay raise at all. And none of us has gotten a 12% pay raise per year, let alone just keeping up with inflation. So even if we don't skew the numbers (your point), I still see a problem with that regardless of any other point.
What do you disagree with what I said above.
What do you disagree with what I said above.
Are you worth more because somebody else got a raise, or because you are under compensated for who you are and what you can do?
Has it occurred to you that the reason no one has ever mentioned their raises (even though we have been unprofitable and many of us haven't gotten any raises for almost 3 years) is because they are now asking for us to take concessions? There wouldn't be a fuss about this like there is if they wouldn't be asking for concessions. It's the lack of leadership that correlates the two. You just refuse to be open minded about that.
08-10-2013, 08:46 PM
#3982
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: B73N A
Posts: 344
So I saw an article which showed that the CEO of Taco Bell makes 420x what a typical worker at a store makes which is ridiculous in my opinion. But it made me think what if they made a cap on how much a CEO can make. Not in terms of dollars but relationship to their lowest paid employee? Dunno just a thought...
08-11-2013, 04:59 AM
#3983
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 87
Originally Posted by SiShane
So I saw an article which showed that the CEO of Taco Bell makes 420x what a typical worker at a store makes which is ridiculous in my opinion. But it made me think what if they made a cap on how much a CEO can make. Not in terms of dollars but relationship to their lowest paid employee? Dunno just a thought...
Now what about a pilot? Shold there be a cap on what a pilot makes? Once you've been at a company a while, you will make more that the vast majority of the US population. Is that fair that I make substantially more then the ramper loading the plane and physically work much less?
08-11-2013, 05:07 AM
#3984
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2011
Posts: 127
I believe we are in the position of having it "both ways".
Our pay shall not move up and down with profitability like a ceo's because we have a contract that states what we make. However, the management team is paid substantial incentives when profit goes up and this is a sign that we are doing well as a company.
Brad's pay went way up=no concessions needed. However, SKYW did not get a billion dollars in the bank by paying Skywest pilots what they were actually worth to the company.
Our pay shall not move up and down with profitability like a ceo's because we have a contract that states what we make. However, the management team is paid substantial incentives when profit goes up and this is a sign that we are doing well as a company.
Brad's pay went way up=no concessions needed. However, SKYW did not get a billion dollars in the bank by paying Skywest pilots what they were actually worth to the company.
08-11-2013, 07:20 AM
#3985
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: OH CA - Retired
Posts: 355
Originally Posted by SiShane
So I saw an article which showed that the CEO of Taco Bell makes 420x what a typical worker at a store makes which is ridiculous in my opinion. But it made me think what if they made a cap on how much a CEO can make. Not in terms of dollars but relationship to their lowest paid employee? Dunno just a thought...
The answer is not a cap. There are too many workarounds. The answer is to start a shareholder's revolt, and vote out the boards of director and replace them with people that have the interest of the company at heart, and not the interest of feathering their cronies' nests. How many boards is BH on?
08-11-2013, 07:44 AM
#3986
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: 737 Left
Posts: 1,825
Originally Posted by Nevets
So you have absolutely no problem with the executive team (I'm not talking about one person) asking for concessions when he has been taking raises?
Has it occurred to you that the reason no one has ever mentioned their raises (even though we have been unprofitable and many of us haven't gotten any raises for almost 3 years) is because they are now asking for us to take concessions? There wouldn't be a fuss about this like there is if they wouldn't be asking for concessions. It's the lack of leadership that correlates the two. You just refuse to be open minded about that.
Has it occurred to you that the reason no one has ever mentioned their raises (even though we have been unprofitable and many of us haven't gotten any raises for almost 3 years) is because they are now asking for us to take concessions? There wouldn't be a fuss about this like there is if they wouldn't be asking for concessions. It's the lack of leadership that correlates the two. You just refuse to be open minded about that.
08-11-2013, 07:49 AM
#3987
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Originally Posted by AtlCSIP
Originally Posted by Nevets
So you have absolutely no problem with the executive team (I'm not talking about one person) asking for concessions when he has been taking raises?
Has it occurred to you that the reason no one has ever mentioned their raises (even though we have been unprofitable and many of us haven't gotten any raises for almost 3 years) is because they are now asking for us to take concessions? There wouldn't be a fuss about this like there is if they wouldn't be asking for concessions. It's the lack of leadership that correlates the two. You just refuse to be open minded about that.
Has it occurred to you that the reason no one has ever mentioned their raises (even though we have been unprofitable and many of us haven't gotten any raises for almost 3 years) is because they are now asking for us to take concessions? There wouldn't be a fuss about this like there is if they wouldn't be asking for concessions. It's the lack of leadership that correlates the two. You just refuse to be open minded about that.
08-11-2013, 11:43 AM
#3988
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: B73N A
Posts: 344
The relevance Taco Bell compares to us is the relationship between upper management and labor. The point I was getting at was their compensation is far out pacing the normal folks like us. What's to limit their pay raises? Seems like "if" we caved into concessions they, upper mgmt, would get huge bonuses for record breaking profit yada yada...and we just screwed the incoming new guys by lowering the bar some more. At least we have some leverage to fight back with in that they can't fill classes to save their life even with the "relief" from the ATP rule. I'm new to this game and correct me if I'm wrong but when has caving into concessions ever worked out in our favor.
08-11-2013, 12:02 PM
#3989
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: 737 Left
Posts: 1,825
Originally Posted by Nevets
The correlation I'm making is the lack of leadership of the executive team, at least when it comes to their raises while simultaneously asking for concessions. They are inter related to me. If management gives themselves a raise, they shouldn't ask anybody for pay cuts. It's hypocrisy because they are related.
If they didn't ask for concessions right now, given the current state of the industry, they wouldn't be doing their jobs. I don't think it is right, and I wouldn't do it, but we all knew they would.
08-11-2013, 03:33 PM
#3990
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Originally Posted by AtlCSIP
Originally Posted by Nevets
The correlation I'm making is the lack of leadership of the executive team, at least when it comes to their raises while simultaneously asking for concessions. They are inter related to me. If management gives themselves a raise, they shouldn't ask anybody for pay cuts. It's hypocrisy because they are related.
If they didn't ask for concessions right now, given the current state of the industry, they wouldn't be doing their jobs. I don't think it is right, and I wouldn't do it, but we all knew they would.
Why do you continue to make excuses and rationalize their request for concessions? State of the industry? We were operationally profitable and the whole corporation has been profitable all along!
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