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Old 03-26-2019, 06:04 AM   #171  
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If there was a floor there really would be no need to negotiate now would there? And since there is no floor and we do have to negotiate, how much faith do you have in our NC and MEC to protect us from the lack of concise and binding language to prevent future less than favorable interpretations by the company of what a floor would actually mean? What do lie flat seats and known R days really mean any way?
Yep. Completely agree
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Old 03-27-2019, 04:07 AM   #172  
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The company wonít pay a crew 1 hour for taxing an airplane and we had to grieve it, Iím sure they wonít find any loopholes in this ďHey I read a book and met a guy no one has ever heard of ...Ē retirement fiasco.
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Old 03-27-2019, 06:45 AM   #173  
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There is NO floor.
Hmm, that's odd. When I run the Modeler on our website it calculates a floor?

Why is that?


Oh wait, you mean that the Pension Benefit doesn't have a minimum Guaranteed Floor Value. That the Pension Benefit is based upon your work history.
Explain to me...how that's different than our current A plan. Which ALSO doesn't have a Floor.
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Old 03-27-2019, 06:47 AM   #174  
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Hmm, that's odd. When I run the Modeler on our website it calculates a floor?

Why is that?


Oh wait, you mean that the Pension Benefit doesn't have a minimum Guaranteed Floor Value. That the Pension Benefit is based upon your work history.
Explain to me...how that's different than our current A plan. Which ALSO doesn't have a Floor.
I have a pension plan proposal that guarantees 150% return. If I build a model will you buy it?
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Old 03-27-2019, 06:56 AM   #175  
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Hmm, that's odd. When I run the Modeler on our website it calculates a floor?

Explain to me...how that's different than our current A plan. Which ALSO doesn't have a Floor.
Kronan, your answer is only partly true since once high 5 is achieved there is in fact a floor.

Itís my opinion that culturally this will change Fedex the most since pilots will be incentivized to fly more, longer, with less emphasis on QOL as a population and the company will benefit greatly with this increased productivity without anything additional in return.
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Old 03-27-2019, 07:00 AM   #176  
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The company won’t pay a crew 1 hour for taxing an airplane and we had to grieve it, I’m sure they won’t find any loopholes in this “Hey I read a book and met a guy no one has ever heard of ...” retirement fiasco.
So, we haven't spent any money researching this proposal? Whole thing's only from reading a book and driven by our former Chairman.

Who created the modeler? Works so I know it wasn't FedEx IT.


Anyone here recently receive a letter from FedEx outlining their accumulated Pension Benefit under our current A plan?

Unlike Taxi pay...Pension plans have a LOT of regulation. Don't know all the history, but think it really became a big deal in the 70's (1974 for the ERISA law...google it) Anywhooo, Law was eventually passed following Pension failures in the 60's to try and protect US worker bee's who've been promised pensions. (See Studebaker Pension failure in the 60s)
And Pension Law has been tweaked a few times over the years to improve it.

Should the VB come to pass. The funds for benefits will wind up in a Trust. Reporting requirements to the Federal Govt each and every year.
Each and every year the individuals covered by this plan will get a statement indicating their Pensionable earnings and their accumulated benefits. In the case of the VB plan, I'm thinking the benefit calculation will have Two Components. 1st based upon the notional value of accumulated shares in the VB trust. 2nd based upon the negotiated floor value accumulated over time.

As per the model, currently, that's a 2% floor rate.

Personally, I think FedEx is retaining Pension changes for CBA 202X.

Also, personally, Should TonyC come back and say-yep- Traditional A plan changes prohibitively expensive so VB plan improvement is better than NO improvement....why should we aim for a 2% floor in CBA 202X? Making the floor 2.2'sh gets the 25 year Accumulated Floor benefit for the QOL upgrade folks into the 130k ballpark.

And, should FedEx try and Game the VB Pension pay...won't be a grievance working through RLA.
Instead, will be working through a different section of Law that's actually on our Side versus the RLA maintain the status quo keep the freight moving.
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Old 03-27-2019, 07:01 AM   #177  
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Hmm, that's odd. When I run the Modeler on our website it calculates a floor?

Why is that?


Oh wait, you mean that the Pension Benefit doesn't have a minimum Guaranteed Floor Value. That the Pension Benefit is based upon your work history.
Explain to me...how that's different than our current A plan. Which ALSO doesn't have a Floor.
The modelerís numbers, which have yet to be negotiated, are used for illustrative purposes only. You know that.

Our current plan does have a formula which is guaranteed, a floor, though it isnít universal in nature. The product of the formula is based upon the variables a pilot can enter.

Your statement is misleading, I wonít presume your intent.

-UA
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Old 03-27-2019, 07:49 AM   #178  
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Kronan, your answer is only partly true since once high 5 is achieved there is in fact a floor.

Itís my opinion that culturally this will change Fedex the most since pilots will be incentivized to fly more, longer, with less emphasis on QOL as a population and the company will benefit greatly with this increased productivity without anything additional in return.
I think this argument is flawed.

If you run the modeler for a guy who works minimum, vs the guy who works his ass off. Itís a difference of like $30k/yr in retirement.

Money guys will continue to chase money. QOL guys will continue to chase QOL. Thatís the whole thing with QOL dudes, they are PASSING up money making opportunities for QOL. Why do you think itíll be any different?

If QOL dudes donít care about making an extra $50k/year NOW(ie passing on upgrade for 10+ years), why do you think they would suddenly care about an extra $30k 15-20 years from now?
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Old 03-27-2019, 07:58 AM   #179  
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I think this argument is flawed.

If you run the modeler for a guy who works minimum, vs the guy who works his ass off. Itís a difference of like $30k/yr in retirement.

Money guys will continue to chase money. QOL guys will continue to chase QOL. Thatís the whole thing with QOL dudes, they are PASSING up money making opportunities for QOL. Why do you think itíll be any different?

If QOL dudes donít care about making an extra $50k/year NOW(ie passing on upgrade for 10+ years), why do you think they would suddenly care about an extra $30k 15-20 years from now?
I agree with you to a point, but under current structure you can be a QOL bidder for all but 5 years and still max out the A plan... which is pretty nice. I still believe the proposed plan will have some unintended effects wrt upgrades as it sinks in for some folks that every year counts.
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Old 03-27-2019, 08:06 AM   #180  
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Originally Posted by kronan View Post
Hmm, that's odd. When I run the Modeler on our website it calculates a floor?

Why is that?


Oh wait, you mean that the Pension Benefit doesn't have a minimum Guaranteed Floor Value. That the Pension Benefit is based upon your work history.
Explain to me...how that's different than our current A plan. Which ALSO doesn't have a Floor.
WOW. just wow. to try and equate the two at that level is dishonest.

How about LTD? Please tell me how that factors into the mix for the proposed plan and how itís no different than the current A plan
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