Retirement Plan Negotiations?
03-27-2019 | 10:12 AM
#182
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 864
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From: B767
“Forward, the Light Brigade!”
Was there a man dismayed?
Not though the soldier knew
Someone had blundered.
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
-Alfred, Lord Tennyson
-UA
03-27-2019 | 02:55 PM
#183
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03-27-2019 | 04:06 PM
#184
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Joined: Nov 2005
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From: 757 Capt
The modeler’s numbers, which have yet to be negotiated, are used for illustrative purposes only. You know that.
Our current plan does have a formula which is guaranteed, a floor, though it isn’t universal in nature. The product of the formula is based upon the variables a pilot can enter.
Your statement is misleading, I won’t presume your intent.
-UA
Our current plan does have a formula which is guaranteed, a floor, though it isn’t universal in nature. The product of the formula is based upon the variables a pilot can enter.
Your statement is misleading, I won’t presume your intent.
-UA
Each and every year, a Pilot's earnings would go towards that guaranteed level of benefits.
The Product of the formula, will calculate a pension benefit. A pilot can assume the Company's Investment guru's will continue to earn the 6.5% they currently predict on our Pension trust. Or you can assume lower. In either case, the predicted benefit will show two components over on the far side of the model that indicate the likely annual Pension. Bottom component is the floor, next one up is the most likely band. (EG the one I just ran for a newhire with a potential 30 year FedEx career shows $218k for the floor and another $16k for the first band with a predicted return matching the hurdle rate of 5%)
Where it Doesn't produce accurate numbers is if someone works 65% of the time.
But, it's darn risky to simply work 65% of the time because your LTD is based on that rolling income.
And, God forbid you should be minding your own business at a traffic light and have someone slam into you and you lose your medical.
Or, you develop cancer or any of the multitude of diseases that mean no more FedEx flying for you.
Your High 5 is whatever you have in hand while working that 65%.
Assuming you stay healthy, a Traditional A plan benefit calculation is Far superior to that of the year by year VB plan calculation.
03-27-2019 | 04:10 PM
#185
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Joined: Nov 2005
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From: 757 Capt
What I have seen, is F500 company after company dumping their Traditional Pension plan's for minor Company matches in a 401k.
What I have seen is FedEx transferring Pension funds and the Pensioner obligations to Insurance companies.
What I have read, and seen, is my NC indicating that improving our A plan was a Line in the Sand for the Company.
I've also read idiotic comments that we've tried and failed to improve our A plan benefit calculation 3 times.
Something TonyC has correctly pointed out as idiotic and that we've only tried Once.
During TA2015.
03-28-2019 | 03:16 AM
#186
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03-28-2019 | 04:40 AM
#187
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So, we haven't spent any money researching this proposal? Whole thing's only from reading a book and driven by our former Chairman.
Who created the modeler? Works so I know it wasn't FedEx IT.
Anyone here recently receive a letter from FedEx outlining their accumulated Pension Benefit under our current A plan?
Unlike Taxi pay...Pension plans have a LOT of regulation. Don't know all the history, but think it really became a big deal in the 70's (1974 for the ERISA law...google it) Anywhooo, Law was eventually passed following Pension failures in the 60's to try and protect US worker bee's who've been promised pensions. (See Studebaker Pension failure in the 60s)
And Pension Law has been tweaked a few times over the years to improve it.
Should the VB come to pass. The funds for benefits will wind up in a Trust. Reporting requirements to the Federal Govt each and every year.
Each and every year the individuals covered by this plan will get a statement indicating their Pensionable earnings and their accumulated benefits. In the case of the VB plan, I'm thinking the benefit calculation will have Two Components. 1st based upon the notional value of accumulated shares in the VB trust. 2nd based upon the negotiated floor value accumulated over time.
As per the model, currently, that's a 2% floor rate.
Personally, I think FedEx is retaining Pension changes for CBA 202X.
Also, personally, Should TonyC come back and say-yep- Traditional A plan changes prohibitively expensive so VB plan improvement is better than NO improvement....why should we aim for a 2% floor in CBA 202X? Making the floor 2.2'sh gets the 25 year Accumulated Floor benefit for the QOL upgrade folks into the 130k ballpark.
And, should FedEx try and Game the VB Pension pay...won't be a grievance working through RLA.
Instead, will be working through a different section of Law that's actually on our Side versus the RLA maintain the status quo keep the freight moving.
Who created the modeler? Works so I know it wasn't FedEx IT.
Anyone here recently receive a letter from FedEx outlining their accumulated Pension Benefit under our current A plan?
Unlike Taxi pay...Pension plans have a LOT of regulation. Don't know all the history, but think it really became a big deal in the 70's (1974 for the ERISA law...google it) Anywhooo, Law was eventually passed following Pension failures in the 60's to try and protect US worker bee's who've been promised pensions. (See Studebaker Pension failure in the 60s)
And Pension Law has been tweaked a few times over the years to improve it.
Should the VB come to pass. The funds for benefits will wind up in a Trust. Reporting requirements to the Federal Govt each and every year.
Each and every year the individuals covered by this plan will get a statement indicating their Pensionable earnings and their accumulated benefits. In the case of the VB plan, I'm thinking the benefit calculation will have Two Components. 1st based upon the notional value of accumulated shares in the VB trust. 2nd based upon the negotiated floor value accumulated over time.
As per the model, currently, that's a 2% floor rate.
Personally, I think FedEx is retaining Pension changes for CBA 202X.
Also, personally, Should TonyC come back and say-yep- Traditional A plan changes prohibitively expensive so VB plan improvement is better than NO improvement....why should we aim for a 2% floor in CBA 202X? Making the floor 2.2'sh gets the 25 year Accumulated Floor benefit for the QOL upgrade folks into the 130k ballpark.
And, should FedEx try and Game the VB Pension pay...won't be a grievance working through RLA.
Instead, will be working through a different section of Law that's actually on our Side versus the RLA maintain the status quo keep the freight moving.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
03-28-2019 | 07:07 AM
#188
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Joined: Sep 2007
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From: 777 Captain in Training
I cannot remember does the new retirement plan info address survivor benefit? I.E. is it planned to have the same reduced benefit for the spouse and cost associated? I know it all has to negotiated but I do not remember if it was addressed.
03-28-2019 | 07:20 AM
#189
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From: 757 Capt
As an example, 650 hours of Intl WB Capt Pay = $210k pay (19k B fund contribution) {Passing up on $110k of annual salary and 6.2k of B fund contributions}
Equally unlikely that our QOL NB\WB FO are hitting the DC limits as well. Quite possible for a 777 FO who's working a full schedule, but that's not the example often thrown out as a negative for the VB plan.
SO, for our Intl WB part time Capt. Should he or she become disabled.
Would assume the max payout of sick bank versus trying to manage it in order to get onto LTD earlier.
Once banks are empty, our Capt will earn 60% of the average of the 12 highest consecutive months in the previous 36. After 2 years, percentage drops to 50%.
To take a WAG a full sickbank is $238k. So, our notional Capt's earnings somewhere between 210 and 238.
At 60%, our Capt is earning between 126k and 143k.
Reduced to 105k\119k after two years.
Capt working a full schedule earns 168k at 60%, down to 140k after two years.
03-28-2019 | 07:27 AM
#190
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From: 757 Capt
If you want to predict future events, you have to make assumptions.
IMO-best way to end up with a positive outcome is to over estimate inflation and under estimate market returns.
When I plug in my assumptions to my financial plans, I assume a 3% inflation and a 5% return. I've had financial advisors in the past (dot.com days) who were advocating I use a 10% return on my plan. Numbers don't look nearly as good when you take the predicted market returns and reduce them by a percent or two.
IMO-best way to end up with a positive outcome is to over estimate inflation and under estimate market returns.
When I plug in my assumptions to my financial plans, I assume a 3% inflation and a 5% return. I've had financial advisors in the past (dot.com days) who were advocating I use a 10% return on my plan. Numbers don't look nearly as good when you take the predicted market returns and reduce them by a percent or two.
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