MD11 Replacement??
08-25-2021, 10:42 PM
#41
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Joined APC: Jul 2005
Posts: 251
It is an interesting problem due to the dearth of available freighters. UPS will also need to replace the MD11 soon. The chart infers the 350F is a viable freighter candidate with impressive volume. However it’s payload it projected to be slightly less than the MD11. The question is, how often is the MD11 takeoff weight limited, but not full, versus full volume but not at maximum takeoff weight? For our 747s at UPS when the volume is full the airplane is at or near maximum takeoff weight. It’s rare the volume is full but takeoff weight isn’t near max, at least for the long haul legs. I wonder how much of that extra volume on the A350F will be unusable. I’m really curious what the 777X freighter specs will be. For FedEx, if the availability of the 777X is near the same as the 350F, it might make more sense for commonality to go with the 777X. For UPS, the ULD difference between the 777 and 747 may still be too big an issue.
08-26-2021, 04:23 AM
#43
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Joined APC: Jun 2018
Position: 757 CA
Posts: 594
Originally Posted by WearyEyed
According to Wikipedia, the 757-200F can haul a 72,210 lb (32,755 kg) payload over 2,935 nmi (5,435 km). Passenger 757-200s have been modified for cargo use as the Special Freighter (SF) and the Precision Converted Freighter (PCF).
Several websites list the A321 P2F as having a max payload of 27 tonnes or roughly 59,525 lb. Wikipedia says, “Over 30 years since launch, the A321 Maximum takeoff weight (MTOW) grew by 20% from the 83t -100 until the 101t A321XLR.”
Most rumors and discussions boards are saying that a factory built A321F would be based on the A321XLR with the higher MTOW, but instead of a 4700 nm range that they’d lower the fuel capacity to increase the max payload.
The 757-200 is 155’ long and the A321XLR is 146’ long. Based on this info any A321 freighter will have less bulk capacity and less payload capacity compared to the 757. The stats are similar, but the 757 is still a better freighter, IMO.
Several websites list the A321 P2F as having a max payload of 27 tonnes or roughly 59,525 lb. Wikipedia says, “Over 30 years since launch, the A321 Maximum takeoff weight (MTOW) grew by 20% from the 83t -100 until the 101t A321XLR.”
Most rumors and discussions boards are saying that a factory built A321F would be based on the A321XLR with the higher MTOW, but instead of a 4700 nm range that they’d lower the fuel capacity to increase the max payload.
The 757-200 is 155’ long and the A321XLR is 146’ long. Based on this info any A321 freighter will have less bulk capacity and less payload capacity compared to the 757. The stats are similar, but the 757 is still a better freighter, IMO.
We’re typically in the 30-40,000lbs range.
Better is a relative term.
08-26-2021, 06:33 AM
#44
Occasional box hauler
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,694
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
Don’t the 777, 747 and MD all use the same AMD/AMJ containers?
In regards to the volume vs weight issue on the MD: typically our domestic loads are around 100k lbs and our Asia loads are just under 200k lbs. So effectively we cube out domestically and gross weight out in Asia. Two very different scenarios that have proven the MD’s value to the company (Brown) over and over. We have become the buffer in the system able to swing between domestic and international as demand shifts. Throw in the parking constraints of SDF and it’s clear why the company has struggled to figure out how to replace a jet they called a temp fix the day they first bought it.
08-26-2021, 01:17 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,099
MD11 Replacement??
Originally Posted by WearyEyed
According to Wikipedia, the 757-200F can haul a 72,210 lb (32,755 kg) payload over 2,935 nmi (5,435 km). Passenger 757-200s have been modified for cargo use as the Special Freighter (SF) and the Precision Converted Freighter (PCF).
Several websites list the A321 P2F as having a max payload of 27 tonnes or roughly 59,525 lb. Wikipedia says, “Over 30 years since launch, the A321 Maximum takeoff weight (MTOW) grew by 20% from the 83t -100 until the 101t A321XLR.”
Most rumors and discussions boards are saying that a factory built A321F would be based on the A321XLR with the higher MTOW, but instead of a 4700 nm range that they’d lower the fuel capacity to increase the max payload.
The 757-200 is 155’ long and the A321XLR is 146’ long. Based on this info any A321 freighter will have less bulk capacity and less payload capacity compared to the 757. The stats are similar, but the 757 is still a better freighter, IMO.
Several websites list the A321 P2F as having a max payload of 27 tonnes or roughly 59,525 lb. Wikipedia says, “Over 30 years since launch, the A321 Maximum takeoff weight (MTOW) grew by 20% from the 83t -100 until the 101t A321XLR.”
Most rumors and discussions boards are saying that a factory built A321F would be based on the A321XLR with the higher MTOW, but instead of a 4700 nm range that they’d lower the fuel capacity to increase the max payload.
The 757-200 is 155’ long and the A321XLR is 146’ long. Based on this info any A321 freighter will have less bulk capacity and less payload capacity compared to the 757. The stats are similar, but the 757 is still a better freighter, IMO.
So what do they replace the 757 with eventually?
Originally Posted by TonyC
We don't carry weight, we carry volume. That's the folly of comparing fuel efficiencies based on pounds of freight. The only important comparison is what ULDs (cans) will fit, and the total volume of those ULDs.
It was obviously argued at some point and at some level that the B-767 is more fuel efficient per pound of freight than the MD-10 or MD-11, and it is also obvious that the smaller tube requiring smaller ULDs holding ~25% less volume was overlooked. The ultimate comparison becomes the cost of 2 crew and 3 engines of one MD-11 to the cost of 4 crew and 4 engines of the B-767 followed by the B-757 to clean up the volume left behind.
The only obvious replacement for the MD-11F is the B-777F.
.
It was obviously argued at some point and at some level that the B-767 is more fuel efficient per pound of freight than the MD-10 or MD-11, and it is also obvious that the smaller tube requiring smaller ULDs holding ~25% less volume was overlooked. The ultimate comparison becomes the cost of 2 crew and 3 engines of one MD-11 to the cost of 4 crew and 4 engines of the B-767 followed by the B-757 to clean up the volume left behind.
The only obvious replacement for the MD-11F is the B-777F.
.
FedEx has stated they want to be carbon neutral by 2040 or something. I don’t know if that means that MD will be replaced by A350s. But we do know that the current factory B777F will no longer meet ICAO emissions standards by 2028. So unless they re-engine it or come up with the 777XF (which may not be an ideal replacement candidate either), the current model will not continue to be built past 2027, right around the time to start replacing the MD. The other rumor is of Boeing making a re-engined 764F. Don’t know if that would be a viable replacement for the MD as there isn’t much information on the speculative specs of that aircraft other than for the passenger version, which is about 20 feet longer than the 767F.
Last edited by FXLAX; 08-26-2021 at 01:31 PM.
08-26-2021, 05:47 PM
#46
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Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 247
Originally Posted by cougar
if the availability of the 777X is near the same as the 350F, it might make more sense for commonality to go with the 777X.
Originally Posted by Thrust Hold
We’re typically in the 30-40,000lbs range.
Better is a relative term.
Better is a relative term.
I’ve flown the A321ceo and loved it. I’ve never flown the B757 but always wanted to. It looks like a great plane, especially with the cockpit upgrades that we have.
An A321 freighter whether P2F or NEO looks like the only option for replacing the aging 757, at least for now. There’s a lot of speculation about the NMA project at Boeing and whether it’ll be a narrowbody or widebody, so for now the A321 is pretty much the only option for direct replacement.
I’ve also flown the B737-800 and hope we don’t get a 737 freighter. I’m sure we could have made a large order during the production shutdown for some cheap max deliveries in 5-10 years. That ship has probably sailed though.
08-26-2021, 07:03 PM
#49
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Joined APC: May 2006
Position: Excessed WB Capt.
Posts: 1,064
We did a flying desk scenario in groundschool a few years ago with a RLS based on 737Max. What a POS. could barely fly mem to cvx with a full load and gas for a good alt and loiter time. Cant remember the details but wasnt impressive.
08-26-2021, 07:45 PM
#50
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Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,624
Originally Posted by Thrust Hold
In 5 years I’ve only been over 60,000 lbs (60.4) once in the 757 here. And that amount of freight + fuel put me within 15lbs of max landing weight upon arrival in MEM on that route (which is typically flown by a 767.)
We’re typically in the 30-40,000lbs range.
Better is a relative term.
We’re typically in the 30-40,000lbs range.
Better is a relative term.
FedEx® Charters - Cargo Planes - Boeing 757F
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