Vaccine Stance
 

Curious how Fedex is approaching the Covid vaccine. Any rumors or ideas as to which way they will lean with a mandate.

Both company comms last week only "strongly encourage" vaccinations.

That was before the FDA approved the Pfizer vaccine. It will interesting to see if it becomes mandatory.

You shouldn’t have anything to worry about if you are vaccinated.


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A new hire buddy at Delta told me it was mandatory, he got it, had to go to hospital for a week, fever, numbness in limbs, blood clots, put him on blood thinners.

How can they make this mandatory, when all the other vaccines aren’t required.

Which vaccine? Which shot 1st or 2nd?

It effects everyone differently. As they say, the befits outweigh the risks apparently. I didn’t have any side effects when I got my first and second dose. Of course there is always the long term which is still not answered. You know what they say YOLO!

This needs to go to the Covid 19 thread so that all the same old arguments can happen there.

Bottom line is that we are very likely going to be flying to places that require it. Their country, their rules.

When that happens it will ultimately force the company's hand.

My nightmare is that the company is offered a choice by countries - use 100% vaccinated pilots or continue the hotel quarantines. ALPA has already come out against vaccine mandates.

Guess we better get used to the ICN Hyatt.....Hey it won't affect the domestic guys, so.....

Yea I believe that would happen, NOT the host countries are not going to let us out.

Personally I think that's the company's exact strategy. Why make themselves out to be the bad guys when they can just let other countries do it?

Why would they continue to waste their resources baby sitting yall when they could just require the vaccine? Just check it with your passport when you enter the country. Done. Ultimately that's coming. I think the Delta insurance thing is gonna happen here too, but who knows...

Have a bid to move around.
If you don't want to get vaccinated, bid an airplane where you can do all of your flying domestic.
If you want to fly International, get vaccinated.

JNJ. Not sure about high dose.

I don’t think fdx will require it, (hoping not), reason….I think lawyers run the show here, and unless they are 100% positive there’s no risk to the company, they don’t want to take that on.

Also, they don’t require flu shots, yellow fever, etc…so why require this?

Hey I was hopeful also and was flying with a smart x Coastie and he disagreed with me thinking the same as you. I said cool tell me why and he said basically “there is simply no benefit to them and it’s a risk for them”. He said why would they risk letting us who travel across the world daily reintroduce infections. I saw his point but was skeptical until Australia made a huge deal about a infection a couple of months ago by our aircrews.

I think it will end up being a mishmash with Europe being mostly if not all open and ASIA mostly closed as it seems many of those countries have dug in!

If the lawyers get ahold of it you can bet there will be a mandatory vaccine at FedEx. It's cut and dry that they can force you and they might be legally exposed for somehow creating an unsafe work environment at some point for allowing it. I'm not saying it happens but I promise you that if it was a decision from legal's standpoint there's no downside to forcing everyone.

I think that enough countries will mandate it globally that on the 777 you'll be forced to take it. Anyone Junior in their seat will probably be forced as well because I'm sure Canada will require it. Maybe the union can swing a deal where you can drop Canada without pay if you're tapped for it. With the company being short on pilots that might not be acceptable to them though... We'll see... It's going to be changing daily now.

Lots of AFLCIO lawsuits should be coming if any company requires a vac. I'm surprised it hasn't happened. Yet. Get the vac, don't get the vac, personal choice. Sadly our lives are now being controlled by hysteria. Whats the next pandemic?

How many ramp workers would quit if there is a vaccine mandate? That will inform their decision.

They'd better not be spending our money on that because it will lose in court. Here's a summary from ALPA on what SCOTUS says on the matter... http://fdx.alpa.org/portals/26/docs/...%208-16-21.pdf

That might be a legit reason they don't require it... They're already having problems retaining people there.

If your fleet flies to a destination country that requires the vaccine then I believe that it’ll be required for that fleet. It would make it hard on the operation having 2 groups of pilots, one that can fly to all destinations and one that cannot. If we go the route of having separate groups then they’ll have to hire more and they don’t want that.

Another option is you’ll be removed from the trip without pay, because it’s your choice whether to get vaccinated, so your choice made you ineligible to fly it. That’s not their problem, so no pay for you.

They’ll mandate it to avoid all that mess.

You mean like how some of us have been covering for people that don't have a China visa for the last 15 months? Or how we've been covering for people that have a CPAP and can't go to Australia?

It's amazing to me how much some pilots are willing to throw other pilots under the bus. Stop trying to justify mandates where there is no need.

So, your belief is that it is the fault of the pilots without China visas that they don't have China visas? Or that guys who have the medical condition of OSA are intentionally doing it?

What about those who have had Covid and recovered? Many countries accept that in lue of vaccination status. It appears to be an argument between being vax’ed and unvax’ed, with zero consideration to those that have had it. What say you ALPA?

:rolleyes:

We have a group of pilots who have made no attempt to get a China visa and internationally bid trips with China layovers. Works out nicely for them, screws their buddy though.

Did I say that? I was merely responding to the idea that it's unfathomable to have "two groups of pilots" by pointing out that we've been doing it for a long time already.

I'll also add that even in the case of the pilots that have chosen to not get a China visa, I don't blame them! Just like I don't blame pilots that do or do not get COVID tested. Personal choice is important, but it's become very popular lately to steamroll our colleagues into compliance.

Choosing not to even attempt to renew a credential required for one's current seat isn't the same thing as opting out of a voluntary Covid test. Not even the same ball park. The FOM and CBA are very clear on our responsibilities regarding visas and other required documents. Choosing not to comply and then bidding for trips that require those credentials is not defensible, IMO. It's a slimeball move by someone hoping to be grouped in with those pilots who attempted to renew and haven't received new docs yet. Explain to me how that comports with the ALPA code of ethics? Their actions won't stand up to even a basic level of scrutiny. Submitting for renewal, then having delays beyond one's control and being pay protected is not the same thing as what these pilots are doing.

If everyone accepts that then the company will probably accept it. The doctors I've spoken with say natural immunity lasts for 3-6 months, so part of this would also depend on what the company's medical experts AND the host nation's medical experts say. I get it that you'll probably throw out some argument of what you read online somewhere that fits the narrative you want, but what will really matter is what the host nation says. More than likely it'll be much easier to track a current vaccination status than sifting through everyone's medical records from 300 different countries to determine natural immunity as defined by the host country's medical experts. It's highly likely they'll just require proof of vaccination... When that happens you either have it and are useful as a pilot or you can't fly to those countries and are worthless to FedEx.

Ramp workers would vanish.

Last two times I’ve been tested at the AOC, the nurses there said they are getting 3-4 pilots testing positive each day. Almost all are vaccinated. Israel just published an 800,000 person study saying vaccinated people are 13 times more likely to be infected with the delta variant of COVID than people with natural immunity, and 27 times more likely to have symptomatic infection than people with natural immunity. Requiring every Fedex employee to take a vaccine that is now showing less than 40% effectiveness against the latest COVID variants, and is already being recommended for boosters after 6 months is not a strategy for success at FedEx. Especially when so many employees already have the more effective natural immunity.
Previous Covid Prevents Delta Infection Better Than Pfizer Shot

Bravo Rock!

Delighted to agree with you. We haven't always.

Rock, So you are saying everyone should get Covid instead of the vaccine because they will have better immunity against reinfection?

Curious as to why the pilots are showing up to work Covid positive after having the vaccine? Maybe because the vaccine is doing it’s job and those that are vaccinated are not getting very sick and maybe not sick at all.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110475

https://www.nejm.org/na101/home/lite...110475_f4.jpeg

Herd immunity or whatever they call it, basically the natural way historically is the best way for most anything and the data is coming out once again on this. Doesn’t really matter what is fact when subjected to other nations requirements in our line of work. It is what it is, it’s business. Either play along or quit, fully your choice whether or not to go along with this insanity. Held out as long as I could, but when France caved (nothing new) others will follow and the Australian debacle continues. Nothing about the shot, it was the “control” method that I did not agree with but that’s just me. Years from now we will have even more data to interpolate or perhaps another pandemic to deal with. At least this was really minor in scale regarding man made killers out there and what really is lethal to a mass extent not small percentages. Horrible yes, highly lethal no. Priorities will dictate your answer like most things, may you be able to drive on without issue.

No. Because that’s just as nonsensical as mandating that people with equal or superior immunity from recovering from COVID get a shot that does nothing for them.

The simple reality is that COVID is here forever and everyone is most likely going to get it. Since it has become obvious that the vaccine does not provide immunity, even vaccinated people will probably still get actual COVID at some point. Whether you are vaccinated or not, if you are infected with COVID, you are infected with COVID. If you are infected with COVID, you can spread COVID. Mandating everyone get a vaccine that can’t keep up with the pace of an evolving virus doesn’t change that. Remember when very highly vaccinated countries like Israel, Iceland and even the UK assumed they had “beaten” the virus because of their high vaccine rates? Turns out that was very wishful thinking. They are now trying to get everyone to take a third shot. Keep in mind, nobody was getting vaccines until about 6 months ago. And we’re already saying boosters are required?!? Some people argue we don’t know how long natural immunity lasts. Well we do know how long the vaccine immunity lasts, and it’s about 6 months. Meanwhile, that Israeli study of 800,000 people shows natural immunity protects better and longer. Hopefully they can someday develop a COVID vaccine that works as well as the human immune system. We aren’t there yet.

It is a simple and unarguable matter of fact that a vast majority of people who get COVID have either a mild or asymptomatic case. We’ve been dealing with it long enough to know who is more inclined to have a serious case. As far as I know, FedEx has only lost one crew member to COVID and that was early on. If I were fat, older than 60, or had one of the known comorbidities that increased my chances of having problems with COVID…AND…I hadn’t already had COVID, I would definitely get the shot. But I’m not fat, I’m not older than 60 and I have already had COVID. Explain to me why I should be required to get a vaccine when I already have natural immunity?

I was getting tested at the AOC when one of our pilots popped positive. They said “I can’t be positive. I’ve been vaccinated.” The nurses chuckled and tested the pilot again. They also asked if they had any symptoms. “Actually, yes. I started to have severe chest pain yesterday. I was directly exposed to someone else who tested positive four days ago. I thought I might have it but I didn’t think I could. But I figured I’d test anyway.” You say the vaccine is working? That was a vaccinated pilot with real symptoms. As they waited for their second test, they called the duty officer and listed all the other pilots they had flown with in the last four days. All of them were pulled off the schedule too. That same thing is happening 3-4 times a day in just the AOC according to the people who do the tests there. And almost all are vaccinated. At this point, what will FedEx accomplish by mandating all pilots get the vaccine?

And the paranoia continues. So some day it will be 3 shots, then 4 then 5, Im thinking stool samples and lung biopsy's. We have a constitution and Bill of Rights that seem to govern our lives, where has that legislation gone.

Rock, the article you linked said nothing about studying 800,000 people. It also did not say that you were 27 times more likely to have symptoms.

The article did say that the data hadn't been reviewed by peers and that the data showed that if you had a previous illness, you were better protected if you got a booster vaccine.

"Giving a single shot of the vaccine to those who had been previously infected also appeared to boost their protection. The long-term benefit of a booster dose of the inoculation, which has just recently begun in Israel, is unknown."

"The data was posted as a preprint article on medRxiv, and hasn’t yet been reviewed by other researchers."

If natural immunity is the way to go, let's get rid of the MMR and polio vaccine as well. Most, if not all states, mandate those vaccines. So, vaccine mandates are nothing new. Just something else to have a political fight about.

As airline pilots, all of us are at a greater risk of blood clots even before Covid-19 was..."Discovered." We fly at high altitudes with very arid conditions, while sitting for long periods. We meet all the conditions for increased risk of forming blood clots. It has been proven that the gene therapy they inaccurately call a vaccine does indeed have a common side effect of increased risk of blood clots. Seems like that should be a good enough reason for pilots to have a medical exemption. This was explained to me by my family doctor when I asked his advice on taking the experimental gene therapy. And yes folks, it is still experimental. The vaccine that was approved by the FDA is not being manufactured until all the experimental vaccines are used up. Millions of old doses before production will begin. That means, no lawsuits if this vaccine causes you loss of income, quality of life, or life itself.