My body my choice?!!! So when you go get your class 1 medical and doc says “hey those eyes are a bit shaky. Your going to need glasses to fly”. You can tell him nope but he wont authorize your medical. Same goes for taking the EKG after 50. Or any other corrective medical procedures. Get them done or don't fly. Simple

Oh those two whole airplanes that they have been flying for the last 6 months? Not a new lease by the way per the ALPA comm. The ones that creat a penalty payment? How about the max hiring numbers we have had for the past 2 years continuing for the foreseeable future. How about the aircraft order after aircraft order. How about the massive bid after massive bid. How about unheard of career progression never seen before? How about the max AVA/Draft and VBB. Learn your contract first then post facts. The penalty payments make wet leasing only viable if they are left with no other choice. Check back into reality

I'm in agreeance here, if you don't want to get the vaccine (or....shot, as you put it), then you shouldn't have to.

The great part about all of this is if the company makes it mandatory, you can resign from your position and not get the vaccine (shot). You'll still have that choice to make!

You still have the ability to make that choice****

It's been great
 

I am blessed that I'm in the position to be able to retire if I want, although I have more years to go if I wanted. I will lose the bonus money since I didn't give my notice, but the date they set as the mandatory vaccinated by date will be the day after I retire. It's sad. I grew up in an America that offered freedoms unlike any other country in the world. Now, we are a third-world banana republic that forces the citizens to do things against their will. We block any form of dissent and ban people from speaking. We cancel all that don't agree with the state-sponsored idea of the day. I feel bad for those not in my position, who will have to choose between their own desire and the ability to feed their family, and the desire of a tyrannical state and people.

Once decades ago we forced people to take experimental vaccines and medication against their will, who were purposely infected, and when it was exposed to the light it was condemned. Now we have citizens volunteering for experimental vaccination and demanding others be forced to receive it against their will. What will be the next thing you are willing to force on others? What were the long-term side effects of mRNA vaccination trials in the past? 3-5 year ramifications? What are they for these new ones, that have litigation immunity? The doctors and scientists that have done the research have spoken, but the state and media giants have banned their speech. Here in America, people are forbidden to speak.

To all, whether vaccinated or not, God bless and keep you. As for me, again, I'm blessed that I can leave before they force me to do something against my will.
Good luck friends

Out of curiosity which God gave us the these rights?
The Mayan, Babylonian, Celtic, Roman, Hindu, Egyptian, Norse, Aztec or just the Christian God?

I’d love to have some god-given rights from Zeus.
https://media2.giphy.com/media/3o7qE...JeuY/giphy.gif


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If someone is old enough to retire with a few years left...then they should know that the America they "grew up" in didn't offer those freedoms to everyone. But one could not be blamed for assuming their own perspective is THE perspective. That's wrong, but hey many human believe all things exist relative to their own point of view. But the world is much bigger than that as is the consensus need for vaccinations against this virus. It's not Joe Biden or some American liberal scientific cabal aligned with a pliant liberal media (All of which is complete and utter rubbish to begin with) This is happening world wide amongst governments with vastly different ideological approaches and agendas. From China, to America, to Russia, and beyond there been a consistent push to mitigation of the effect of this. Yet somehow lots of individuals believe this is a power grab to make THEM less free.

People aren't answering the questions put forth, because those making the queries don't actually care about any answers that don't validate their presuppositions. Rhetorical. Why bother?

I think the internet is where big people go to pound their hands and have a good cry when they don't get their way.

Very short sighted post!!! Wet lease aircraft allowable in scope a supposed to shot term lift support not years contracts

Remember MEC is playing for you-betraying US
 

Another MEC email that ALPA wrote: Remember the team is playing for you-Then stand up and represent us. Our MEC has already given up our rights and will give up more. All of the sudden in last weeks email the company changed its stance. But in the prior emails we had a "Never before" seen acceleration in the contract. We NEED to VOTE THEM OUT!!!! and go on our own.

To further add from the recent truthful message that we should not get our information from any where else but our MEC and ALPA
To add OUR MEC helped and set up a few of the SENKOR managers with FALSE pilot profiles to VIEW our calendars.
Our MEC has agreed to let the company force vaccines on us already. This is a moot point to argue, the MEC has failed already, you will see in January.
Our MEC has given up our vacation to the company.
Our MEC has given up our A-plan to the company.
Our MEC gave up our right to bring a lawsuit to the company. We never could strike but at one time we were able to bring a lawsuit.
Our MEC gave our contract negotiations to ALPA and signed documents to not talk about it to US, the members.
Our MEC has sold us out. If you have balls you will join the lawsuit. Shout out to the four last round who did have the balls and exposed the MEC.
Call me whatever you like but when this starts happening in January and the MEC blames the company and say "it snuck in," means they were paid off and asleep at the desk.

[QUOTE=Hedley Lamarr;3300578]Out of curiosity which God gave us the these rights?
The Mayan, Babylonian, Celtic, Roman, Hindu, Egyptian, Norse, Aztec or just the Christian God?

I’d love to have some god-given rights from Zeus.

It is obvious I am older than you since I was required to learn about the civics of this nation when I was in school. If you are an American citizen you probably ought to read the Preamble and Constitution of the United States of America. It's ok, it won't make you a MAGA man. Learning is healthy, and reading our founding documents should answer your juvenile question.

For whoever assumed I'm an old white man and had some unfair advantage in life, perhaps you might try to not assume things of which you know very little. I am positive I was hired because of my ethnic minority status because I truly don't know how I landed this job. Yes, my parents and grandparents overcame the prejudice and racial slurs they suffered when they legally came to this country. They preserved and raised successful children. The ones who are still with us will tell you when they came here last century, this was the best country in the world. The few that remain don't recognize it and feel it has changed for the worse.

K bye. Thanks for the seniority bump.

I genuinely do hope you enjoy your retirement.

Actually, I did want my questions answered. It's just like when a F/O walks up to the briefing with a new Capt. The Capt tries to assess who he is flying with, that person's relative experience, and get a feel for their competency. I am not stuck on any particular agenda, I wanted to see the level of actual knowledge for some of you keyboard commandos. And, the bonus would be, maybe I would get a new nugget of info that I could cross reference for it's validity and learn some more. As one who has read journals put out by the American Physical Society, the American Academy of Science, and various non technical science publications for decades, and one who has had graduate courses in statistics, I find these discussions quite amusing. They surely reinforce the idea that the less I know the more sure I am.

You must not be able to read the contract because it clearly spells out that it’s legal and creates a penalty payment. That’s exactly what the communication sent by ALPA clearly stated two days ago.

The whole point is to monetarily make it painful on the company and de-incentivize them from doing it unless they absolutely have to.

Our scope language is the same as it’s been for 25 years and has a track record of working pretty darn well.

Much bigger fish to fry and things to look after than these measly 2 wet leases that are much smaller numbers then we’ve had in years past.

You people are freaking unhinged. This is why people would rather have computers fly the damned things. I feel like I caught the Crazy just participating.

not sure if you noticed but seniority doesnt help like it used to.

The argument in regards to vaccination started with “it would be illegal to require one to be vaccinated”. Then when that myth was debunked with numerous case law examples dating back to the early 1900s they then moved on to “it’s my God-given right to make my choice”. Then you ask him/her if it’s their kids God-given right to not be vaccinated and go to school where vaccinations are required? You bet your kid cannot get vaccinated but they then also cannot go to that school. Sounds similar to this and going to work at a place that would require vaccination. If you don’t want to get it that’s fine don’t get it but if your employer requires it then you no longer have a job. Have fun finding a new job. See ya!!!! Then have fun wasting thousands of dollars on an attorney more than happy to take your money to have the case thrown out like numerous cases are currently throughout the country.

What????!!!! Are you completely delusional.

I’d guess the point is that there are very few good trips out there nowadays, and even if you start with a good trip, it often gets revised or subbed into something crappy anyways, completely subverting seniority.

Dumb arguement. A prescription for glasses is vastly different from a needle going into your body…jeez. And I got the glasses.

Show me in the contract my union signed where it says I need to get vaccinated in order to fly?

26.M.1. ".................. The company shall advise each pilot of the visas and immunizations he must possess."

Random Covid Thoughts:

Covid started where there is lab doing gain of function research on coronaviruses.
Fauci is a known and proven liar but is still the ultimate authority.
They haven't found a single bat with Covid 19.
Studies show masks don’t work but here we are.
PCR doesn’t and never tested for Covid.
Numbers are 100% proven to be inflated.
Comorbidity matters. (Barely a single peep about this or demographics)
mRNA in cancer patients is Gene Therapy.
mRNA in Covid is a vaccine.
The defintion of “vaccine” online is different than in old print dictionaries.
Definition was prevent infection and transmission now it’s lessen symptoms.
The “Vaccine” effectiveness numbers are a moving target.
CDC overwhelmingly said no to boosters, CDC and White House is pushing them anyway.
Former FDA commissioner now works for Pfizer.
Still no therapies like “Tamiflu”. It’s vaccine or die.
VAERS (Early Fauci told us to look at VAERS). VAERS adverse events are increasing.
Blood clots and myocardial inflammation is REAL.
The border (no mask or vaccination).
Natural immunity being ignored and downplayed.
Virology 101 is never vaccinate somebody previously infected (that’s why the pediatrician asks if your kids already had chicken pox)
Where is the flu? Why are death rates the same for 2020 as 2019?
FOLLOW THE SCIENCE…
FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!

Just some thoughts, want me to have faith in the system, start by firing Fauci and Rochelle!

Yep, we already agreed to it.

Do you feel better now?

Doubt it, how could anyone honestly feel better when they, with the help of 24 hour opinion news, have uncovered a massive worldwide conspiracy. Most people think that when someone gets a lot of power they’d go for yachts, private jets, and classless jewelry. That’s exactly what “they” want you to think though. Real power is all about making people wear cloth masks and get shots. I’m just waiting to find out that Fauci secretly started a plastics manufacturing company to supply the ear loop holders in all these cloth masks. Follow the money, that dude is probably tens or thousands of dollars wealthier now.

OMG, Yawn on this whole Covid crap. Its like opinions on abortion. In 5 yrs, this won't be an issue. But we have certainly seen societies true colors. People hoarding, people breaking social barriers and telling people to wear masks and get the vac. The past almost 2 years is nothing but disappointment in media hysteria, people so gullible they can't think for themselves and people trying to push their morals on others. Pretty sad breakdown of society. And people wonder why Nazi propaganda worked so well. Well the US and world media has done the same. Sad to see how people have just become goats or sheep.

Exactly like abortion, like how that entire thing got settles 5 years (almost to the day) after Roe vs Wade and is now just a distant memory.

Oh don’t provide facts this is the internet biatch forum. He most definitely won’t reply to that.

You mean the contract we as a pilot group signed? You do realize that language has been in the contract since the 2006 contract or before rite?

Ask the MEC why they let it a manager who not pilot do this. Just like the MEC let one of the Managers who was sent to the 777 not even interview. Ask them first and post what they say.

Why is it all of a sudden MEC elected pilots are resigning and yet the bargaining committee for ALPA remains in place. Initial PM is a puppet for ALPA just like our MEC is a puppet.

REMEMBER the only truthful messages we should fet our information from is our MEC, I mean ALPA who is running our negotiations. OUR MEC and the bargaining committee are nothing but puppets for ALPA. FIRE OUR MEC!!!!

To add OUR MEC helped and set up a few of the SENIOR managers with FALSE pilot profiles to VIEW our calendars.
Our MEC has agreed to let the company force vaccines on us already. This is a moot point to argue, the MEC has failed already, you will see in January.
Our MEC has given up our vacation to the company.
Our MEC has given up our A-plan to the company.
Our MEC gave up our right to bring a lawsuit to the company. We never could strike but at one time we were able to bring a lawsuit.
Our MEC gave our contract negotiations to ALPA and signed documents to not talk about it to US, the members.
Our MEC has sold us out. If you have balls you will join the lawsuit. Shout out to the four last round who did have the balls and exposed the MEC.
Call me whatever you like but when this starts happening in January and the MEC blames the company and say "it snuck in," means they were paid off and asleep at the desk. Send them an email and ask them. Just like the Manager who is in 777 now and never interviewed. What is his seniority number. We have managers who are way up there and not pilots watching us. Now we get an email saying how the company is going back on its word, what is our MEC doing.

Send the MEC a message and see what they say.

Cool story!

I’m gonna go ahead and assume you’re running for the open positions that are currently available? I didn’t think so. It’s much easier to just continue being an Internet talking head. It’s much easier spreading lies and fallacies on the Internet than dealing with reality. Good thing most of us pilots aren’t like you. Now you can go back to beating your dog. Troll!!!

Vaccine Stance
 

All anecdotal. By definition, 0.2% is not a large number. People want to take some freedom away from everyone for 0.2%. And if you look at the young and healthy, that number goes even lower, something like 0.00something percent? As for the answer to my questions, maybe you are right. But those answers need to be known before we decide to limit people’s liberties, imho.

If you want to protect yourself, vaccinate. That seems to be the best way to protect yourself from the unvaccinated. No need to take liberties away for 0.2% of the total population.

One last thing, the majority of people are fully vaccinated. Three quarters have at least one vaccine. About 15% have tested positive, which amounts to a small percentage of all people who have gotten COVID. With those numbers helping here immunity, we don’t need to sacrifice everyone’s freedom and liberty for the infinitesimal minority, especially when one knows if they are the ones most at risk and therefore know to take as many mitigation efforts their risk aversion allows.

I like the seatbelt analogy. This vaccine mandate is like you, as a seatbelt wearer, not letting people participate in society because they refuse to wear a seatbelt, especially when they decide not to drive and take the bus instead.

Umm... You do realize that there is a seat belt "mandate" in the US and you'll be punished (fined) if you're caught not wearing one while driving.

Vaccine Stance
 

All humans have natural rights. You don’t need to believe in God to know that. But if you do believe in God, it doesn’t matter which one you believe to be the true God, to feel it comes from God.

Yeah but the operable part of that analogy in respect to COVID vaccine mandates is that the danger of not wearing a seatbelt is borne by the one not wearing it. Just as the danger of not getting vaccinated is borne by the one who chooses not to vaccinate. And people aren’t ostracized, shunned, looked down on, and prevented from participating in society and being able to provide a livelihood for themselves if they don’t comply with seat belts laws. Plus, there isn’t a passport for seat belts to enforce that law.

Vaccine Stance
 

At the risk (hope) of changing the subject, let me ask you this. If your shower head has a leak but still provides good water pressure during your shower, do you let it leak and develop that mildew streak down your shower wall or do you fix it so that it doesn’t become worse than a stain on the wall?


If management is perpetually wet leasing out of peak, can you really say the penalty is a disincentive? Maybe it should be more like UAL’s scope choke? Make it so disincentivizing that they simply don’t exercise that clause? Or at the very least, why wouldn’t you want the penalty to be higher?

Alaska airlines had scope language that probably dated back more than 25 years and now they wished they would’ve done something about it. That’s just not a good argument. It’s an argument management negotiators may make at the table though. It’s only 2 aircraft now but what about in the future?

This depends on each state or even school district depending on the state. For example, until relatively recently, in California, your kids didn’t have to be vaccinated. But if there was an outbreak of whatever they were vaccinated, they would be required to stay home. Now they’ve closed those loopholes.

Vaccine Stance
 

It says that they will advise us of immunizations. Not that they can mandate them. So if a foreign country requires it, they advise us of it. Obviously if that’s the case, there will be personal consequences just as there is now if you choose not to get a visa. That’s not the same from the company mandating the vaccine as United did.

Definition of advise per webster "to give information or notice to".

26.M.1. ".................. The company shall advise each pilot of the visas and immunizations he must possess.

You could state it this way. The company will give notice of the visas and immunizations he must possess.

Cut and dry. You will be advised and if you choose to not comply you will have consequences up to and including loss of employment. Simple.......