Originally Posted by Stan446 (Post 3295821)

What does morals have to do with it? Its a personal choice to get vaccinated.

Originally Posted by DR K (Post 3295838)

This mandate discussion is being 100% framed from a moral argument. The mandate group says pilots should be fired unless they get the shot because the unvaxxed cause death and mayhem and all kinds of nasty things. Completely immoral selfish behavior and they don’t deserve a job flying (or anywhere else I guess) says them.

When their employer declines to require the vaccine, this mandate group will not resign in protest over the immoral behavior of their employer that allows the deadly unvaxxed to roam free in the name of profits says I. Neither will they resign to protect their families from the unvaxxed they fly with. The ultimate moral standard they demand from the unvaxxed is a one way street.

That is my guess, but let’s see how it ages. DR K

Originally Posted by Shaman (Post 3295860)

You are simply wrong, but I see how that can happen. The vaccine mandate is a public health question. It doesn't a have a single solitary thing to do with "morality" despite how much you repeat it. Your decision to accept or or reject the mandate isn't about "morality" either. It is about accepting or rejecting the validity of a public health crisis. So while you're thinking you're framing this clever argument about morally outraged pilots NOT quitting in the absence of a mandate you fail to understand that this post was started and feed by folks concerned about the possibility of a mandate. But I guess repeating things makes people feel good?!!

"Liberty" and "freedom" don't entitle you to do whatever you want whenever you want. That is indeed the mind of the selfish. Most children learn this at an early age, but it is pretty clear that some folks have still failed to grasp this. So they rant and rave like angry toddlers threatening violence and touting phantom conspiracies oppressing their "rights". Nothing will change their MINDS because this is about how they FEEL and what they WANT.

Originally Posted by DR K (Post 3295870)

Public health crisis = requirements for the greater GOOD = not doing HARM to your neighbor = moral argument.

To not get the vaccine is to do harm to others in your mind right? So it is immoral to remain unvaxxed.

We’ll see what happens when the deadly unvaxxed are allowed to work amongst you in the name of corporate profits. Then the toddlers you speak of will really reveal themselves.

There are companies like UA that are a better fit for those with disdain for the deadly unvaxxed. Give em a look see and put your morals where your mouth is, or are your morals for sale to the highest bidder too? DR K

Originally Posted by DR K (Post 3295870)

Public health crisis = requirements for the greater GOOD = not doing HARM to your neighbor = moral argument.

To not get the vaccine is to do harm to others in your mind right? So it is immoral to remain unvaxxed.

We’ll see what happens when the deadly unvaxxed are allowed to work amongst you in the name of corporate profits. Then the toddlers you speak of will really reveal themselves.

There are companies like UA that are a better fit for those with disdain for the deadly unvaxxed. Give em a look see and put your morals where your mouth is, or are your morals for sale to the highest bidder too? DR K

Originally Posted by 121guy (Post 3295813)

OSHA does not have jurisdiction over flight crews.

Originally Posted by 121guy (Post 3295813)

OSHA does not have jurisdiction over flight crews.

Originally Posted by Shaman (Post 3295860)

You are simply wrong, but I see how that can happen. The vaccine mandate is a public health question. It doesn't a have a single solitary thing to do with "morality" despite how much you repeat it. Your decision to accept or or reject the mandate isn't about "morality" either. It is about accepting or rejecting the validity of a public health crisis. So while you're thinking you're framing this clever argument about morally outraged pilots NOT quitting in the absence of a mandate you fail to understand that this post was started and feed by folks concerned about the possibility of a mandate. But I guess repeating things makes people feel good?!!

"Liberty" and "freedom" don't entitle you to do whatever you want whenever you want. That is indeed the mind of the selfish. Most children learn this at an early age, but it is pretty clear that some folks have still failed to grasp this. So they rant and rave like angry toddlers threatening violence and touting phantom conspiracies oppressing their "rights". Nothing will change their MINDS because this is about how they FEEL and what they WANT.

Originally Posted by Shaman (Post 3295860)

You are simply wrong, but I see how that can happen. The vaccine mandate is a public health question. It doesn't a have a single solitary thing to do with "morality" despite how much you repeat it. Your decision to accept or or reject the mandate isn't about "morality" either. It is about accepting or rejecting the validity of a public health crisis. So while you're thinking you're framing this clever argument about morally outraged pilots NOT quitting in the absence of a mandate you fail to understand that this post was started and feed by folks concerned about the possibility of a mandate. But I guess repeating things makes people feel good?!!

"Liberty" and "freedom" don't entitle you to do whatever you want whenever you want. That is indeed the mind of the selfish. Most children learn this at an early age, but it is pretty clear that some folks have still failed to grasp this. So they rant and rave like angry toddlers threatening violence and touting phantom conspiracies oppressing their "rights". Nothing will change their MINDS because this is about how they FEEL and what they WANT.

Originally Posted by acecrackshot (Post 3295936)

Well, the political party that loves these mandates (in a complete shift from 7 months ago) is also the political party that supports "my body, my choice." So, which is it?

Originally Posted by [color=#222222

FrankTheTank[/color];3295936]Teen pregnancy is a public health crisis. How about mandatory birth control for unwed women?

Originally Posted by Shaman (Post 3295941)

I dunno ask them?!!


Hummmmm..... Teen Pregnancy, but how about we start with free birth control for anyone who wants it without a prescription?! Sort of like the Covid Vaccine, No?!

Originally Posted by Globemaster2827 (Post 3295116)

1. You could cause me to get a breakthrough case. Getting very sick would be rare but possible. I'd miss some work that I don't want to miss and it will cost me some money.
2. I have children too young to vaccinate. You may cause a breakthrough case that I give to them or give it to them directly. They will probably not get very sick but they most certainly could. They will miss several weeks of school and that hurts their education.
3. You'll give it to other people and the hot potato will go around until it hits someone who can't vaccinate for a valid medical reason. It will kill some of them.
4. You drive up insurance costs and we're in the same risk group. So you drive up my insurance costs unless the company forces you to pay more.
5. You drive up government spending as they may end up paying for your hospitalization. Then you and I pay similar taxes.
6. You use up hospital resources that affect those of us who have actual emergencies. Right now we're out of Ambulances in Memphis thanks to the unvaccinated. If I get in a car wreck I may have to depend on them throwing me in a cop car, hoping they get me to the hospital in time, and then hoping there's a room available. Meanwhile a certain percentage of yall are on vents when you could've just gotten vaccinated.

You being unvaccinated absolutely does affect everyone else. Calling it a "Personal Decision" is disgusting when it literally kills other people.

Originally Posted by Shaman (Post 3295941)

I dunno ask them?!!

Originally Posted by Nightflyer (Post 3296007)

Spot13,

OK, I give up, what is SENKOR, and why do they need to see our calendars?

Also, what exactly did the union give away with regards to our vacation? I know the company opened that section, but any give away should be overwhelmingly rejected. We have the best vacation policy, and anything less is unacceptable.

Giving away the A-plan is a firm no vote from me.

Originally Posted by urinmyseat (Post 3296016)

An interesting thing happened last week. My daughter went to her friend's house. 5 girls hanging out and a sleepover. The other 4 girls are a little older than her and are all vaccinated for covid. One of the girls had a close contact (another vaccinated person) before the sleepover, but because she's "protected" she didn't bother to tell anyone. This Tuesday, one of the other girls got sick, then tested for positive for covid. Two days later the other three got sick, and then tested positive. So far my unvaccinated kid is the only one who isn't sick. We talked to our doc and got her tested just in case, and all is well.

Explain to me how this is her fault that those girls got sick, and used up all those resources? There are six people in this story, 5 are vaccinated and those same 5 are sick, but it is the unvaccinated causing all the suffering?

Originally Posted by urinmyseat (Post 3296041)

So far none of them. They did all go to the doctors. The point is, my unvaccinated daughter was not the cause of this. She was actually the victim of vaccinated thinking they can not pass on the virus. Not their fault, since all they are told from leaders and the media, is that if your vaccinated, you are saved. At the age of 17, statistically, none of them would require medical resources whether vaxed or not. They fall in the 99.97% that get better with no treatment. Frankly, those girls used precious resources when they got the vaccine.

I'm surprised that folks haven't caught on yet, that the vaccine being administered right now isn't FDA approved. They have not started manufacturing the FDA-approved version, and won't until the older unapproved stock is used up. That is why the new one has a new name. The old one affords no legal recourse in case of a reaction or death. The new one does.

Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan (Post 3294846)

Well.. condoms aren't 100% protective but that doesn't mean you
say "screw it!" and raw dog a hooker...

Originally Posted by urinmyseat (Post 3296041)

So far none of them. They did all go to the doctors. The point is, my unvaccinated daughter was not the cause of this. She was actually the victim of vaccinated thinking they can not pass on the virus. Not their fault, since all they are told from leaders and the media, is that if your vaccinated, you are saved. At the age of 17, statistically, none of them would require medical resources whether vaxed or not. They fall in the 99.97% that get better with no treatment. Frankly, those girls used precious resources when they got the vaccine.

I'm surprised that folks haven't caught on yet, that the vaccine being administered right now isn't FDA approved. They have not started manufacturing the FDA-approved version, and won't until the older unapproved stock is used up. That is why the new one has a new name. The old one affords no legal recourse in case of a reaction or death. The new one does.

Originally Posted by Spot13 (Post 3295963)

To further add from the recent truthful message that we should not get our information from any where else but our MEC and ALPA
To add OUR MEC helped and set up a few of the SENKOR managers with FALSE pilot profiles to VIEW our calendars.
Our MEC has agreed to let the company force vaccines on us already. This is a moot point to argue, the MEC has failed already, you will see in January.
Our MEC has given up our vacation to the company.
Our MEC has given up our A-plan to the company.
Our MEC gave up our right to bring a lawsuit to the company. We never could strike but at one time we were able to bring a lawsuit.
Our MEC gave our contract negotiations to ALPA and signed documents to not talk about it to US, the members.
Our MEC has sold us out. If you have balls you will join the lawsuit. Shout out to the four last round who did have the balls and exposed the MEC.
Call me whatever you like but when this starts happening in January and the MEC blames the company and say "it snuck in," means they were paid off and asleep at the desk.

Send your block rep a message and watch the response, if you get one. Wait they are the only source of information we are to recieve

Originally Posted by hoya saxa (Post 3295668)

Your rights end where mine begin. And right now the unvaccinated folks exercising their freedom is impinging on my rights to live my life without daily hassles, free travel and the assurance of available hospital resources if I or my family need them. I give zero f’s about your opinions to the contrary, based on some lady you watched on YouTube or fringe “news” sources peddling conspiracies for profit. And that’s coming from a libertarian-leaning conservative who hasn’t spent a moment in fear of Covid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by DR K (Post 3295751)

What does "your rights end where mine begin" mean that you wrote? I must not comprehension too good because I read that to mean you want the vax mandated for all employees and they don't have the right to remain unvaxxed. What was the point of your post, please help me to understand because you could have valuable insight to add to this discussion! DR K

Originally Posted by ItnStln (Post 3296109)

It means that he is a fascist.

Originally Posted by hoya saxa (Post 3296174)

You nailed it. Feel free to trespass on my property, maybe help yourself to something in my bar, take my car etc etc. Because your rights to do whatever TF you want are all-important, no matter their impact on others. To think otherwise is fascist! [emoji2357]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by BertMacklinFBI (Post 3296202)

what do you have for bourbon?

Originally Posted by BertMacklinFBI (Post 3296202)

what do you have for bourbon?

Originally Posted by DR K (Post 3295799)

Maybe not. Any company that subscribes to the moral mandate for the vaccine would have required it the day after FDA approval.

Since the vast majority of companies in the US (notably in the airline industry) still do not require the vaccine (even after the executive order places additional threats to do so), they obviously do not share the moral argument of the mandate. Some companies will fight back and the legal challenges could last well beyond the forecasted month. Our country and industry are definitely at a crossroad and we will see which direction it turns.

Back to the real question which is based on your sincerely-held moral beliefs concerning the necessity of the vaccine to protect innocent life. If your employer received an exemption and did not require vaccination as terms for employment, could you ever see yourself working in such a dangerous and immoral environment? Thanks for your thoughtful consideration of this question. DR K

Originally Posted by BertMacklinFBI (Post 3296202)

what do you have for bourbon?

Originally Posted by Shaman (Post 3293268)

No one should be stupid enough to take personal health nor financial advice from pilots despite the fact that they happily and confidently share it.

Why argue with these dudes? They believe they can see and understand things no one else can.

Originally Posted by 121guy (Post 3295813)

OSHA does not have jurisdiction over flight crews.

Originally Posted by DR K (Post 3295799)

Maybe not. Any company that subscribes to the moral mandate for the vaccine would have required it the day after FDA approval.

Originally Posted by Temocil27 (Post 3296134)

Food for thought- doctors are often wrong. That’s why they pay a lot annually for malpractice insurance. A doctor telling you misinformation is fairly common. I bet a lot of doctors still believe low fat diets are good for you. Also, FDA approval means jack. How many prescription drugs are FDA approved, but are also responsible for killing people?

Originally Posted by Shaman (Post 3295860)

"Liberty" and "freedom" don't entitle you to do whatever you want whenever you want. That is indeed the mind of the selfish. Most children learn this at an early age, but it is pretty clear that some folks have still failed to grasp this. So they rant and rave like angry toddlers threatening violence and touting phantom conspiracies oppressing their "rights". Nothing will change their MINDS because this is about how they FEEL and what they WANT.

Originally Posted by FXLAX (Post 3297816)

Forcing someone to do something against their will is not freedom or liberty. No one is saying that unvaxed people want to do whatever they want. That’s a strawman argument. What they are saying is that they don’t want to get vaccinated. People’s risk of death from COVID is measured in the fractions of one percent for those under 75 and those without specific comorbidities. And the percentages for those vaccinated is even lower. So saying that someone who is unvaxed infringes on the rights of the vaxxed just doesn’t add up.

Forcing someone to get injected in order to protect those who are already protected by the vaccine amounts to authoritarianism.