First of all, it's Merriam-Webster, which is a dictionary, not an almanac.

Second, you clearly read none of the preceding context - it was to refute ColtF-15's assertion that inoculation and/or vaccination is a failure if anyone contracts any form of the disease.

Finally, I can tell you that I'll vote no on any TA that doesn't significantly improve our retirement plan in a measurable GUARANTEED way that is not market dependent. And, I know you already know this (because you said so), but in 25 years and three airlines, I have never voted yes to a contract - I'm up for a fight but nobody else ever seems to be.

Well they should not be MDs do they fell the same way about drug addicts, criminals, smokers, severely obese or aids patients?

1) The staffing challenges are caused by a multitude of reasons. OPTEMPO, pay, working conditions, vaccine mandates to name a few. Everyone has different reasons why they are unhappy with their job. Talking in absolutes doesn't contribute to any meaningful dialogue.

2) These anecdotes are extremely hypocritical. We have a privatized medical system in this country. If your family members are so "disgusted" with the unvaccinated then they have the option to seek employment elsewhere. But wait, it would really suck for them to have to choose between their paycheck and changing employers wouldn't it?

3) I agree with you, I think the majority of people would be better off educating themselves on their own healthcare. The majority of of skilled workers are pretty "average" in their career fields, pilots included, and this is no different in the medical industry. It makes sense that people screaming so loudly to trust the "medical professionals" would mindlessly believe the government has their best interest in mind as well.

Nope. Just people who are terrified of getting a shot that prevents our medical system from crashing like it currently is... If we did turn them away it'd solve the problem and I fail to see why anyone would take issue with it. After all, it's a "Personal Choice" that it won't affect the unvaccinated if they get it. Right? Yall have all done your "Research" that you don't need it? Right? So if you don't need it then you don't need the hospital when you get sick.

Bingo.

Your freedom to make a poor decision should be accompanied by the requirement to live (or die) with the consequences.

Before the obligatory overweight, smoker, diabetic, helmetless motorcyclist etc. argument, I'd say the same thing if they were literally shutting down ER's - but that's not the reality in which we find ourselves.

I'm not sure why freedom is such a bad thing? It is my decision whether I "live or die" and guess what, the chances of the latter happening are really really slim. Not sure where you are getting your stats on the "literal shutdown" of ERs but the biggest threat to the healthcare industry are vaccine mandates. Here is another article about staffing issues.

The only people "terrified" that I have met are the ones that are soaking up the fear inducing stories that the government/media keep pushing.

For those supporting turning away the unvaccinated from ERs, etc…. Do you support the use of alternative treatments if they request them? For this question I will bring up Ivermectin (the human kind), that it appears some doctors and pharmacists will not prescribe or fill. If it works or not is not the question.

Yep. To add to that, one out of every 500 people in the US has already died from Covid. Not sure how much else there is that’s important to know.

Is this supposed to be scary? 800k die a year in the US alone from heart disease. Stop drinking sodies, where is all the fear mongering from that? Then again, just like big pharma, the soda industry is a multi-hundred billion dollar a year industry.

Heart disease is the #1 killer in this country, and now we have an additional disease that is coming in second. Great, I feel so much better now that you’ve normalized it.

Its not even coming in second. Cancer comes in second, maybe 3/4/5/6 depending on where you get your inflated numbers. I haven't normalized anything, I don't have that power. The government seems to have all that power due to people like you ceding any and all of your remaining freedom of choice.

If you want to get the vaccine, I 100% support it (see, belief in personal choice works both ways). It has some modicum of effectiveness but it is not the holy water you believe it is. Once you give up your freedom, you don't get it back....

I don't support forcing a doctor to prescribe anything. If you want to "doctor shop" until you find one who will prescribe Ivermectin for covid, go ahead - it's their license.

If you can find a doctor to prescribe it, go ahead. Don’t get angry if a doctor says no though, since they may not want the liability.

Just because I want a treatment doesn’t mean a physician will go along with it. You may have to shop around.

Vaccine Stance
 

So just like other places did at the height of the pandemic, Alabama can construct temporary facilities. We don’t need to constrain everyone’s liberty or freedom to take care of a problem in one area.


You want to force people to put something in their body against their will. And you are using these justifications you listed. But the many of those things can be said for people who don’t exercise, have a bad diet, smoke, drink, drugs, gamble, porn, etc. Do you want to force a specific lifestyle for them as well so that they don’t infect you with whatever disease they may have, or clog up the healthcare facilities, or raise your insurance premiums and taxes, to take care of them?

We have to realize that we live in a country that is based on freedom and liberty. That means that there will always be people who will do things that are not the best thing to do and that will cost society in some way. Do we really want to head down that path and risk what we have in this country over forcing people to do inject themselves with something against their will when we don’t even force anyone about a myriad of other bad behaviors? We already have problems starting to arise from authoritarianism, I don’t think we want to exacerbate it more, especially over this vaccine. We are taking about a disease that kills the old (70+) and people with certain comorbidities (that most got from bad health habits). That for the vast majority, it will not get them sick. If this truly was as bad as the media and politicians make it seem, everyone would be clamoring for the vaccine.


This has nothing to do with smarts. A doctor is educated in his field just as we are in ours. That doesn’t make one smarter than the other. But if you look for it, there are reputable doctors from prestigious schools that don’t agree with many things coming from the policy maker doctors in the government.

With that said, I know your response was sarcasm to make the point that you can’t believe anything you read online. I just wanted to add your comparison about natural immunity to cancer, to point out the flawed analogy in your sarcastic remark, not that I was disagreeing to it in whole.

Your rights end where mine begin. And right now the unvaccinated folks exercising their freedom is impinging on my rights to live my life without daily hassles, free travel and the assurance of available hospital resources if I or my family need them. I give zero f’s about your opinions to the contrary, based on some lady you watched on YouTube or fringe “news” sources peddling conspiracies for profit. And that’s coming from a libertarian-leaning conservative who hasn’t spent a moment in fear of Covid.


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I and many take issue with it! You don’t need the hospital if your a drug addict, person driving drunk or criminal, after all that’s a personal choice. I find it scary you advocate turning people away who had concerns about getting a vaccine because of their health issues or pregnancy status if they later got sick. Using your metric many of the people in the hospitals should be turned away after all many ailments are preventable with good eating habits, exercise, not smoking, no drug use and not being a criminal.

Since all of you fascists are emphatically declaring this a moral issue by stating that the unvaccinated could "kill you" or others, your employer is de facto immoral, reckless, and deadly by not mandating the vaccine to protect you and their other employees.

If you had actual moral compasses or backbones, you would have already submitted your resignation letter in a disgusted response to your immoral employer's vaccine mandate inaction and found another job. There are several airlines that require vaccinations in this situation which would be a better fit for your ideologies concerning informed medical consent in the USA.

Until you do tender your resignations, either your greed surpasses your morals or you are liars/psychopaths/sociopaths and you can keep typing until the cows come home since you have no credibility. I'd bet three year's worth of well-stacked pancakes that none of you resigns in protest to your employer's despicable lack of action. (feel free to insert any of the other descriptors you have used like disgusting, conspiratorial, selfish, etc)

Either way, I wouldn't be able to live with myself in your current situation since your morals are easily purchased by the pay and benefits provided by your employer. Happy job hunting, DR K

Such strong words! I also don't think you understand what being a libertarian is because that is not how your freedoms work. I think what you are looking for is "authoritarianism". Now if you are "libertarian minded", I agree with you that your right to freedom shouldn't be interrupted, HOWEVER, you need not be looking at your fellow citizens but your own government. Although they would love for you to believe that this is all the unvaccinated's fault, your government is the organization that has restricted your travel and brought hassle to daily life. Your language sounds pretty fearful.

This is for your education:

Libertarian

"Libertarianism is a political philosophy and movement that upholds liberty as a core principle. Libertarians seek to maximize autonomy and political freedom, emphasizing free association, freedom of choice, individualism and voluntary association."

Authoritarian

"Favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom."

Some famous authoritarians in history:
- Bashar Al-Assad
- Kim Jong-Un
- Joseph Stalin
- Fidel Castro
- Saddam Hussein

Now remind me, which one of these is you?

It's all hot air - the employer is gravely immoral and dangerous by not mandating vaccinations. Yet somehow, the pay scale and promises of the PSPP make that immorality acceptable to these medical fascists. That's why none of them have resigned in protest, as you would expect from someone with such strongly held beliefs. They are comfortable working for an employer that values profits more than life by not requiring the vaccine. You'll never have a logical debate with someone whose morality is for sale, so quit wasting your time. DR K

You are right, Dr K. For the sake of our country and our fellow citizens, I can't help but try.

You guys crack me up with your tough guy Internet drivel. Thanks for your brilliant insight! I’m sure you’d be equally dramatic and confrontational in person. Oh wait, you’d be the fat, bald guy with the braided belt and the white go-fasters? Yah, thought so.


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You're an epic troll

If you are ever in my JS imma gonna sneeze on you.

BOO!

PM’ed you hoss. Let’s see if you respond.


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Why do you continue to work for a company that doesn't mandate the vaccine?

By knowingly working for a company that allows its employees to kill others out of selfishness, aren't you complicit in those immoral actions?

Will you resign soon if the company doesn't mandate the vaccine?

Are you prepared to protect your loved ones and public by taking your skills elsewhere and not supporting this business whose actions are contrary to your morals?

What do my huge gut and new balances have to do with this? DR K

Wait, in your initial post you went on and on about how you don’t care about anyone else and “******* my freedoms”. I gave you some actual facts and critical thinking. Instead of an honest debate, you went ad hominem and called me an Internet tough guy?

Your assumptions on my physical appearance are way off. But if you equate intelligence based on how someone looks, that says a lot more about you than it does me. Don’t worry, the government will take care of you.

Vaccine Stance
 

Bro, I never said I’m pro-mandate. For someone so insightful you seem sorely lacking in reading comprehension. I’m super happy to be your current target of whatever rage it is you seem to hold but try not to project too much.


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You guys crack me up with your tough guy Internet drivel. -You. Hypocrite.

Remember the part where I said I don’t care about your ill-informed opinions? Ad hominem? Well, if the man is an idiot, I don’t bother arguing with him. Draw your own conclusions from that.


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Did you read the PM? Nope. Cuz it wasn’t to you.


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What does "your rights end where mine begin" mean that you wrote? I must not comprehension too good because I read that to mean you want the vax mandated for all employees and they don't have the right to remain unvaxxed. What was the point of your post, please help me to understand because you could have valuable insight to add to this discussion! DR K

Dr K, he doesn’t even know what he means. All over the place, that guy.

My “conclusion” is that you have a sense of superiority over anyone who doesn’t agree with you because just maybe, they have a different framework of values and principals. Instead of opening your mind and considering other people have their own beliefs, you just just plug your ears like a little kid and lash out at their appearance instead because you have no real substance to bring to the table.

Yeah, you’re right bud. I’m just confused. Must be the Trump (er, I mean Biden) vaccine wreaking havoc! Against my better instincts I waded into this nonsense in a moment of weakness. Sometimes the idiocy level gets high enough it’s hard not to comment. I’m happy to discuss this with anyone in person but I’m not about to try to have a nuanced discussion with faceless alter egos. You wanna know how I actually feel, PM me and we can talk over beers on the road.


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If he is not pro-mandate, then I wouldn't expect him to resign in protest of the dangerous work environment allowed by his company. I guess I just misunderstood him.

I am wondering when enough is enough for the others that speak so passionately about the dangers posed by the unvaxxed.

When does their safety become more important than a paycheck?

Why don't they go somewhere safer that is not in conflict with their deeply-held values?

When will they start acting like they have morals and refuse to toil for a company that is complicit in the deaths of untold Americans?

Some might even say that working for a company that doesn't mandate the vaccine because of the great pay and benefits is a bit...selfish. DR K

Dr K, you’re just a fat bald idiot with a braided belt. :rolleyes:

Hey, leave my belt out of this.

I predict this post will age poorly. I give it a month...

By the way... Who all is ready for open enrollment next month?

Maybe not. Any company that subscribes to the moral mandate for the vaccine would have required it the day after FDA approval.

Since the vast majority of companies in the US (notably in the airline industry) still do not require the vaccine (even after the executive order places additional threats to do so), they obviously do not share the moral argument of the mandate. Some companies will fight back and the legal challenges could last well beyond the forecasted month. Our country and industry are definitely at a crossroad and we will see which direction it turns.

Back to the real question which is based on your sincerely-held moral beliefs concerning the necessity of the vaccine to protect innocent life. If your employer received an exemption and did not require vaccination as terms for employment, could you ever see yourself working in such a dangerous and immoral environment? Thanks for your thoughtful consideration of this question. DR K

OSHA does not have jurisdiction over flight crews.

What does morals have to do with it? Its a personal choice to get vaccinated.