Vaccine Stance
 

I believe ACB only refuse to hear it before it works it way up the normal way. The suit is still in the courts. I’m not saying it’s going to be successfully, chances are it’s not. I’m just saying that we haven’t heard the last word on it. Unless you can provide a link that shows the trial court and appeals court have adjudicated it?

I'm reading this article as the suit that the students filed is dead but they'll continue filing (frivolous) suits in an attempt to end the mandate on different grounds. It's 100% true that the courts have spoken on the matter. If our pilots due the same they'll be wasting their money and possibly costing themselves their jobs. https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/12/polit...ate/index.html

Vaccine Stance
 

It doesn’t surprise me that your particular source left out facts. ACB merely denied an emergency injunction. The case now has to proceed in the lower courts with plaintiffs arguing on the merits while the mandate is in effect. Like I said, it’s probably going to fail seeing as the injunction was not allowed but it’s certainly not a dead issue. And therefore the courts still have a say in it.

https://www.jurist.org/news/2021/08/...ccine-mandate/

To be clear, current case law allows these mandates, unless something changes that. I’m not trying to say otherwise. I was just trying to point out that the current case is still alive.

I’m sure the “leadership” also understands that the remaining unvaccinated folks are predominantly those that won’t care about anything they say. Vaccination is the best way to flatten the curve as it curbs hospitalization more than any other factor. Why waste time trying to squeeze blood from a turnip?

Nailed it. I'm surprised that the non-specific PCR test decertification did not get more widespread traction.

It can be argued that this entire psychological operation hinged on the high cycle threshold thus leading to false positives, which leads to innacurate death data (with vs from).

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Nailed it. I'm surprised that the non-specific PCR test decertification did not get more widespread traction.

It can be argued that this entire psychological operation hinged on the high cycle threshold thus leading to false positives, which leads to innacurate death data (with vs from).

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I have no idea what the company is planning regarding the vaccine and so can't speculate. I will add that personally, I will never need the vaccine. I have over a 99% chance of survival from this virus. Most of the crew force has a 99% of survival. My natural immunity is top notch. Most everyone else who I fly with has, in general, excellent health habits. Subtracting the nights everyone lets loose and ordering too much catering. :) 99% chance is better than walking across a golf course holding a nine iron above your head during a thunderstorm and not being struck by lightning.

The CDC has already admitted they "fibbed" about the PCR test. The CDC has also admitted that the death number that is stated on their website is 95% false. What I mean is that 95% of the death number had preexisting comorbidities, i.e., they were sick already.

The vaccines are already showing signs of efficiency loss, to say the least. The flu vaccine has an efficiency of 38% from 2004 to the present. I seriously doubt that this vaccine, created in six months and still experimental, has a higher efficiency. You already see the push for booster shots coming. Probably every 5 months for the rest of your life. Boy, does that sound enjoyable. These vaccines were also created by companies that were handed the largest criminal fine in history, at the time, $2.3 Billion. I would say that believing that getting the vaccine will somehow solve all or most of your problems is extremely naïve.

This whole affair for the past year and a half has been a shxx show. The facts, while very interesting most of the time, are irrelevant lately. Some people run around like chickens with their heads cut off slinging stuff at everyone within a certain radius. I seriously hope and pray that individuals in our crew force don't start having any type of health issues over the next couple years. I don't need a doctor to tell me anything about the vaccine. All I had to do was read the list of side effects. Over 100, btw. Most doctors have no idea what the VAERS website is even about. The vaccine adverse event reporting. More reactions from these vaccines in the last year than from all vaccines combined. Yikes.

The Australian politician lately is a classic. He took the vaccine to prove its effectiveness and developed Bells Palsy on live tv. He then went in for the second shot with an eye patch. Think Australian pirate.
What other fashion accessory can he add after this second dose?

I agree and it’s been flattened, thanks to the vaccine. Yet we still have mask mandates. There will always be people who won’t get the COVID vaccine. So unless we want to be an authoritative or fascistic or dictatorial, we will have to suffice with the current flattening of the curve.

Hey Lax,
Boy, it sure is serious business around here with that oh so sweet air of moral superiority.
Maybe we should talk about the latest Ben and Jerry flavors or something. Here I'll start,

Salty tears, Holy cannoli your dead, Tennessee Mud spike protein, This is Nuts booster shot, Fears and Cheers fudge tracks, Natural Immunity Nutello, Ivermectin Ice cream sandwich and my favorite, Self Righteous Magnum crunch.

Hopefully none of these flavors end up in the Ben and Jerry's Flavor Graveyard too soon.

I know, I'm poking a rattle snake with a stick. But hey, if your stick is long enough it's pretty fun sometimes. :)

"I will never need the vaccine. I have over a 99% chance of survival from this virus."

My wife's hospital has five children on ventilators right now. UAB Children's, Birmingham Alabama.

I bet some of the five were infected by people who said the same thing.

The company will require the vaccine, and countries will make you quarantine anyway. (cue Nelson: Ah-ha!)

You know how many healthy kids under age 18 have died "with" Covid in the UK since February of 2020?

6

Kids are much more at risk from seasonal influenza than COVID. I doubt there are five kids on ventilators in one hospital at one time. The data doesn't support that claim. (Chart updated Sep 1st)

Regardless of that claim, what is your point about vaccines since they do not prevent transmission?

The world has gone mad. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...45d1d0593d.jpg

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Yo Huck,
I see what you did there. Sneaky. Pull the heart strings and attack the character.

I'm not holding up a rod and shouting at G or anything. I say this with all humility and I hope all of your family fully recover.
I'm stating that after 70 plus negative test, like most around here, a healthy immune system, like most around here, that I have a 99% of surviving this virus.
I push vitamins C, D and zinc and have access to noble prize winning ivermectin.
So why would I fill my temple with something where I can still catch and spread this virus and that has over 100 side effects?

Edit: I misread your statement. Ah, your saying people like me infected your children. Ok.

Your aware that individuals that are vaccinated carry the same or higher viral load of covid than non-vaccinated individuals right?
Oh, and please add a booster or two. That will just increase your viral load.

I agree. Those collectivist who want to force everyone else to conform to their idea what they think is best should lower a notch or two on their level of superiority.

Dude man here's the article...

https://www.cbs42.com/news/health/co...e-to-covid-19/

You called my wife a liar so I'm out.

Eventually the kid in the playground with the hockey helmet on ends up all by himself....

No way brother or sister. For freedom here and definitely not superior to any.
My posts have been minimal because there hasn't been anything worth saying.
I've sat around and read the wild bunch here proclaim and exclaim for years. All pretty much for naught and most a steaming pile of ____.
Figured it was time to pipe in after reading this thread.
If I'm wrong I'll state so. Here and anywhere else, crew room or airplane.
Pokin' you was in jest, of course.
If you need an apology, just say.

Not enough information. Why are they on ventilators? Is it from COVID? If so, are these kids vaccinated? How old are they? Do they have comorbidities? If they weren’t vaccinated, why? Should others be forced to inject something into their bodies against their will for the supposedly benefit of those who voluntarily had the injection? Or should it be for the benefit of those who don’t want to be injected? If people don’t want to be injected suffer the posible consequences of their choice?

Vaccine Stance
 

My reply to you was not meant personally towards you. I was making a general comment to those who believe they should force others to put something in their bodies because their superiority makes them feel that way. So I apologize if I didn’t make it clear that it wasn’t personal. Although your response to it says a lot all by itself.;) But I’ll take it as a compliment (no apology needed) that you chose my post to make one of your rare posts.

My point isn’t about being right or wrong. Personally, I think that people should vaccinate, especially if you are one of those at risk. If someone is in the at-risk category and yet decide not to vacante (other than for medical reasons), then I might have the opinion that that is not the best decision. But I still don’t think people should be forced by others to vaccinate just because we think we are better at making decisions for themselves. If one does feel that way, I’ll have the opinion that you need to bring your moral superiority down a few notches.

Freedom means people being able to make good and bad decisions on their own. I hope that clears things up. I think we may be in agreement. If not, that is ok too…until forcing people becomes a thing.;)

You'll have to pardon me if I'm a little skeptical of the media given the last 18 months of covid fear porn and gaslighting. Their latest accomplishment was the blitz to label Ivermectin as a "horse dewormer." Ivermectin is a Noble prize winning medicine and on the W.H.O.'s list of essential medicines that is currently provided as early treatment of viruses like Dengue Fever and Influenza A due to its anti-viral properties.

In terms of COVID risk to children. The data is the data, almost 1 in 500,000 which is about the same risk as them getting struck by lightning (lightning risk per CDC).

UK Study:
https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-689684/v1

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...272d1ca5e7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...20ef919abd.jpg

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Meat fighter…what is your weapon of choice? It has to be a tomahawk ribeye?? Great handle. It gave me a giggle.

Lawsuit and fire the MEC
 

Our MEC has agreed to let the company force vaccines on us already. This is a moot point to argue, the MEC has failed already, you will see in January.
Our MEC has given up our vacation to the company.
Our MEC has given up our A-plan to the company.
Our MEC gave up our right to bring a lawsuit to the company. We never could strike but at one time we were able to bring a lawsuit.
Our MEC gave our contract negotiations to ALPA and signed documents to not talk about it to US, the members.
Our MEC has sold us out. If you have balls you will join the lawsuit. Shout out to the four last round who did have the balls and exposed the MEC.
Call me whatever you like but when this starts happening in January and the MEC blames the company and say "it snuck in," means they were paid off and asleep at the desk.

Do you think that ALPA can really stop the company from mandating the vaccine or putting it into the employee handbook or whatever other way they want to put it in writing? I’m not trying to debate whether or not it should be done. But do you really think ALPA can stop them from requiring it?

I still don’t think the company will have to require it. When other countries do, it will become a de facto “company” requirement. and don’t read that as Asia or Europe. Think Canada. I dunno. I’m just a pilot.

Oh man I hope they really do mandate the vaccine! Best news I’ve heard all day!

I'm gonna plus one some other comments... First off I believe it'd be better for everyone if we had 100% vaccination. We'd see less sick calls that exhaust the vaccinated pilots on reserve. Meanwhile the unvaccinated pilots at this point are being given unlimited free vacations. The company could also move more cargo with more healthy pilots. We'd see less breakthrough infections where the vaccinated pilots are forced to expose their families unnecessarily. Health care costs would be less for vaccinated pilot with a 100% rate and we all know that yall are going to complain to heck and back if you're forced to pay for the statistical risk for your "Personal Decisions". Second it will be required by foreign countries eventually. This is point, set, match for any antivax arguments with respect to our jobs. We must operate in and out of these countries regardless of what the antivax pilots have read online. Third the company can legally require it as determined by SCOTUS. Why waste resources fighting something we have no legal basis to fight?

So there's a sizeable percentage of us that believe it's in our best interests to have everyone vaccinated and don't want to waste resources fighting it.

My kids are too young to vaccinate. The oldest is 5 and in Kindergarten. Sure she probably wouldn't die but I really don't want her missing two weeks (or more) of school and falling behind. There are more issues with Covid than just death.

It’s very odd to me that some claim this as some kind of argument.

A vaccinated person is significantly less likely to be infected compared to an unvaccinated individual. There’s no question about that.

https://www.healthline.com/health-ne...-Delta-variant

So while an infected vaccinated person may spread COVID as much as an unvaccinated person, the vaccinated individual is far less likely to ever catch it in the first place.

Finally, the notion that most of our crew force is in amazing physical shape is laughable. Just because some of you were in shape during your years of active service, doesn’t mean you’re still in shape when you’re 50+ years old, sleep deprived, drinking excessively, and eating all the desserts in catering. I’ve flown with tons of guys that fall in that last category.

If we all get vaccinated and comply they will let us get back to normal and stop covering it on tv 24 hrs a day. Thats the only way to get back to normal.

That did not happen, quit repeating your Facebook talking points here.

https://www.aap.com.au/politicians-b...lse-diagnosis/

Lmao you really believe the debunkers still? You ever look into anything yourself?

Your article says there is no link between Bell's Palsy and the vaccines. This is an outright lie. This isn't an uncommon reaction in vaccines like this.

Prove it. Just flapping your gums doesn’t make it true.

Unless you are getting the Chinese SinoVac, there’s no statistical evidence of your statement:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...467-9/fulltext

I hope this is sarcasm... If one believes this after watching digital 1984 play out over the last 18 months then they're either not paying attention or willfully ignorant.

This stopped being about medicine, science, and public health right after two weeks to flatten the curve. Since that point the virus has been used as a predicate for control and power. It painfully obvious every step of the way as the goal posts shifts when the latest narrative gets proven wrong and goes down the orwellian memory hole.

Can we wake up already from this mass psychosis?

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So what are the chances the company allows for those to be tested weekly instead of the government forced jab? I don’t care, I’ll pay for it myself.

We get government money for the mail contract and also for flying those vaccines. I think the test option goes out the window.

For whatever reason...the USPS is exempt from Bidens planned mandate...so I would assume no airline carrying USPS materials could be held to it just for that reason.

16 pages of whinging about what the company may or may not do seems excessive, no?

This is simple the company will do what's in the best interest of its operations and its employees. When a decision is made and if you have a personal objection to that you are under no obligation to continue your employement. Question is how strongly do you feel about it? Your position here is as voluntary as a vaccination.

No. "Normal" is stop the stupidity and let nature takes its course. Most who get sick recover and develop natural immunity. A small percentage die which is already happening in spite of the pointless measures being taken. The end result is we live our lives normally. If some want to get vaccinated, fine. I did but only because I thought it would make my life easier. Not because I'm afraid of dying from this. We've already seen getting the shot doesn't stop you from getting it or passing it along. Acting like the vaccination is going to have any measurable affect on this long term is just buying into another version of the same BS. This boogie man has lorded over the world for way too long.

What you’re saying is absolutely incorrect. You are either lazy or are purposely spreading false information.

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/co...ine-comparison

I have family that work high up in a large FL hospital system. Their COVID patients are almost exclusively unvaccinated, except in some cases when the vaccinated also have other issues that have compromised their immune systems.

Oohh, high level hospital family.
I'm a little fuzzy on what exactly is incorrect.
Did I say the vaccine wouldn't benefit some people? No, I did not.
If people who get Covid and are not vaccinated require hospitalization, that makes sense if you believe the vaccine proponents. It was supposed to reduce one's chances of hospitalization. But no one every said it was a guarantee from getting it or passing it along to someone else. That's been shown over and over again since the start of the vaccinations.
All I said was most people can get sick, not die and develop natural immunity if they choose not to get vaccinated. Their choice. Either one is okay if they don't mind the risk.
But the idea that getting the vaccine is somehow going to stop the spread or me getting vaccinated protects YOU is asinine. It's already been shown that a vaccinated person can still get Covid and can still pass it on to someone else.

The point I was trying to make is that vaccination is a personal protection measure. It's not some kind of collective effort to make Covid go away. No more than getting a flu shot every year suddenly makes the flu go away. If someone thinks making that choice is somehow going to return us to normalcy, they're in fantasy land.

So, what is your point and where, exactly, am I spreading false information.

The vaccine does make a SIGNIFICANT difference in preventing YOU from catching COVID. It’s not a magic force field preventing all infection, but it does make a very big difference.

This is misleading and just flat out incorrect. You keep saying it, but have no idea what you’re talking about.

The mRNA vaccines in the US make a very significant difference in preventing transmission of delta COVID.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid...-delta-variant

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/24/h...infection.html

If that were the case, which it's not, then highest vaccination rate per capita countries in the world wouldn't have some of the highest case and transmission rates.

It's been playing out real-time in Israel, Iceland, Gibraltar etc.

In a sane world we would recognize the utility of proven therapeutics and protocols. But since this isn't about medicine, health, or science these mitigation are censored and outlawed to push a shot that acts as a short term therapeutic and doesn't inoculate anyone, yet people have been conditioned to think this is the exit metric for this insanity. Pro-tip.... the only exit metric is non compliance.

From two weeks to flatten the curve to unknown number of shots in order to feed your family from a virus that for healthy people under 70 are at risk on oar with seasonal influenza..... and people still think this about public health.

Wake the hell up. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d75be9b517.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d6cbf292ba.jpg

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