That 0.2% of the population that has died has had the ultimate liberty taken away from them, their very survival.

But I’m not in favor of vaccine mandates at all. Part of the misfortune of Covid times is that many people are now used to getting paid for not working, or barely working at all. We certainly don’t need to add more people to the unemployment and Medicaid list, particularly with a worker shortage. Definitely don’t want those who are working to join those now staying at home.

Similar viral loads. The ideal your trying to grasp is similar. Not higher. But keep cherry picking the science you want to believe in, Meat Fighter. I don’t care vax or no vax. But at least speak some truths that are widely accepted.

Here are some more numbers for you to dispute. A few Minnesota hospitals released the percentage of hospitalized with and without vaccine and amount needing ICU. News flash. Of those hospitalized. It was the unvaxxed that took the cake.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/bringme...d-unvaccinated

Just take a peek at the pictorials credited to the institutions. I’m sure the source is not good enough for you…it was the first I could find with the pictorials, but the pictorials are from the hospitals. Pictures are easy to understand. Good luck! If you wanna bash the hospitals reports which you likely will. Fire away I guess?

Not going to disagree with the data or pictures. But I would ask a few questions.

1. How many of the designated unvaxxed have had one shot or are within two weeks of their second shot?

2. Why is there such a disparity between this data set and other countries like Israel or Singapore or Gibraltor or even states like Vermont that have a much higher vaccination rate?

That being said, back to my original point. What is the predicate for mandating a treatment that does prevent transmission?

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1. Does it matter? They are not yet considered “vaccinated” till after 2 weeks. Or maybe you mean sick from the shot? But still don’t think you test positive from the shot.

2. I haven’t the time nor the care to investigate every country. I just provided some close to home info. But running through the googles. Singapore not overly concerned because of low amount of serious cases. Due to vaccine.

people have their opinions. A random internet dude isn’t gonna change yours. Good luck out there. I seriously hope you’re wielding dual tomahawk ribeyes. Or maybe one tomahawk and one sausage links? Your screen name brings me joy.

Source?

That sounds like some FNC talking point if you ask me.

Source for what? That it doesn't prevent transmission?

https://www.cdc.gov/media/rele.../20...-covid-19.html

What is the predicate for forcing others to get vaccinated if it doesn't prevent transmission? In other words, if the vaccinated or unvaccinated can infect others then what's the rationale for forcing people to get injected to prevent infecting others?

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Just stop for a minute and listen closely:

1)A vaccinated person is far less likely to catch COVID than an unvaccinated person.

2)So while an infected vaccinated person can also spread COVID, they (the vaccinated person) is far less likely to have ever caught COVID in the first place.

So what can we deduce from this? Simple - vaccinated people are less likely to catch and spread COVID compared to unvaccinated people.

More importantly, governments across the world will soon require anyone (yes, even American FedEx pilots!) to have been vaccinated before they can enter the country. We also have verbiage in our contract that says YOU have to have all necessary vaccinations as part of your employment. You anti-vaccine nut jobs are on borrowed time, and will soon have to either get vaccinated or leave/get terminated. I predict most of you will fold and get vaccinated, as you aren’t going to quit your million dollar career over something so stupid.

Source for the claim that vaccinated people have a “higher viral load”?

All I can find is similar viral load.

There is no source, because he's posting false information. Infraction issued.

Thanks for doing that! Seriously, it’s time we stop this nonsense and I’m glad you guys are on top of it.

I'll own it. The study stated: "Viral loads of breakthrough Delta variant infection cases were 251 times higher than those of cases infected with old strains detected between March-April 2020." https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=3897733

I inferred higher viral load based on the study's March-April period being primarily unvaccinated. However, this does not take into account the variable that the variant may have a higher viral load to previous variants and does not account for direct comparison between vax or unvax as it relates to this variant.

Now I digress.....you have posts stating falsehoods that the shot prevents transmission. A clear and undeniable fact confirmed by the CDC amongst other governmental health agencies. Infraction? Nope. Does it really matter? No, it just exemplifies the COVID-1984 nature of things.

What is the predicate for forcing others to take a treatment that does not prevent transmission? Why are fellow pilots advocating for their peers to take a shot that doesn't prevent them from spreading the disease?

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/...cid=mm7031e2_w

Summary: https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...-mask-guidance

And poof! Fauci changes the definition of 'fully vaccinated.'

All of the vaccinated folks will be officially UNVACCINATED.

If you personally don’t want the booster then congratulations, you will officially be an ANTI-VAXXER.

Good times.

https://thepostmillennial.com/dr-fau...campaign=64483

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Separately, didn’t Biden say we could get back to normal when 98-99% of the population is fully vaccinated? What about children, those medically compromised, and those with religious objections? Taking those into consideration, the population as a whole will never reach 98-99%.

wrong again Meat Fighter.

Everything you post is wrong, and none of the links you post support what you claim they do. You are obviously not even reading the links you post.

This is a good example of why what you’re claiming is absolutely wrong:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-covid/620161/

I think you’re putting too much faith in some of these folks ability to reason and make informed and rational decisions. I’m looking forward to watching the overconfident throw away tens of thousands (or more) on lawsuits when case precedent has existed and been continuously upheld for well over a century. Jacobson v. Massachusetts anyone?

Yeah, you’re right.

But I’m definitely looking forward to them being terminated via the language in our contract, and we will have an ample amount of younger folks more than willing to replace them. Win-win for everyone!

Fedex will never mandate the vaccine.

Yes they will. The reasoning will be for government mandates. And you will get it too, it’s in your contract to do so.. But I’m hoping some of you don’t and get terminated. I welcome the seniority bump and look forward to the younger folks filling your spot.

Never say never, scooter.

Cognitive dissonance.

Many here are proud of playing a lead role in this mass psychosis. Even after 18 months I still can't believe I'm living through a digital rendition of 1984.

Two weeks to flatten the curve has become, according Fauci, three shots in a 12 month span to feed your family or you're labeled unvaccinated, along with all the propaganda shaming of wanting to kill grandma if you decide not to get a third shot.

I could understand people complying with these mandates for a myriad of personal reasons based on their own beliefs and overall cost benefit analysis, but it's a completely different story to see people advocate for this dystopian nightmare after being subject to the psy-op and shifting goal posts for the last 18 months. Yet here we are. It's fascinating and scary all at the same time.

Back to the original point; what is the predicate for mandating a shot that doesn't prevent transmission....... in order to stop transmission? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...84778630a1.jpg

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1. First off, this 2021 not 2019 so you're not allowed anymore to post or share information that contradicts the CDC or other governmental agencies, even if you're a certified physician like the author of this article. To do so is now labeled misinformation. Let's hope this author doesn't have his medical license revoked and/or his position terminated. Because we all know that science is finite and not about discovery. Bottomline, while this author makes a compelling argument, I've been told I need to dismiss it out of hand because it contradicts the narrative set forth by the CDC Director and Dr. Fauci.

2. Why is the most heavily vaccinated country in the world in terms of total shots per adult population have one of the higher case rates? How is that level of transmission possible in a highly and multiple vaccinated population given this authors claim? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...2c19aedc0c.jpg

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Wow, so you 100% didn’t understand the article. Are you illiterate?

Wow, so you are 100% deflecting. Cool.

Seriously though, while I may disagree with that doctors claim, I thought his reasoning was sound based on the data he referenced.

Anyway, back to 2021 and our dystopian nightmare. Let's hope he doesn't get terminated for posting disinformation. While he may be ultimately correct on this issue and the government incorrect, as we've seen numerous times over the last 18 months, the government along with the large tech companies will not allow any deviation from the sanctioned narrative. In terms of scientific or medical truth the CDC is the sole arbiter and they clearly state this doctor is wrong and spreading misinformation. He even highlighted this fact in his subversive expose, errrr I mean article, that he disagrees with the CDC. We're not allowed to deviate from that.... those are the new rules.



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No, you are literally using the same thought process as a brick wall.

As the article succinctly pointed out, if you have a room full of vaccinated people, of course the amount of vaccinated people will be higher.

Every population that has a high vaccination rate, also has hospitals full of unvaccinated COVID patients.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-well...ed-11632999601

I have absolutely no idea what you’re yammering on about regarding the doctor in the article getting terminated for. That makes absolutely no sense. The only people getting cut off from social media are anti-vaxxers like yourself for spreading garbage propaganda. You are being manipulated by Russian troll farms, and proud of it. It’s pretty hilarious actually, because you have absolutely no idea how badly you’re being played.

To answer your question, the predicate is Jacobson vs Massachusetts which was decided by the Supreme Court. The smallpox vaccine is and was not 100% efficacious, yet it was mandated. The Supreme Court spoke and it is the law of the land and it has been for over 100 years. That is a direct answer to your question and assuming you live in the United States it applies to you and since FedEx is a company operating in the United States it applies to the company and it’s employees in the United States.

Now as to your argument that we live in the equivalent of 1942 Germany, I’m going to have to do some major research to answer such a well thought out and not at all lazy argument. I’ll start by reading “The Rise and Fall of The Third Reich” again and see what I missed the first time. Will report back soon listing all of the similarities.

I don’t think they will mandate it. They just won’t pay you if your trip goes to a country that requires it and you need to be removed from said trip. Which is fine.

I think you are being pretty optimistic that they will play that game. Maybe for a little while out of necessity. But as an international pilot, there is a requirement to maintain the credentials necessary to operate to ALL the locations in that fleet’s bid pack. No one has a contractual right to a seat (or FDA base) if they aren’t willing to do that. Eventually my guess is someone who has a list of countries they can’t fly to will need to move to a fleet that primarily flies domestic. Which is fine.

I’m fine with that too. Actually it’s preferable. No one senior should have to cover a junior persons trip, unwillingly, if that person can’t fulfill their obligation to the company due to their choice.

"Russian troll farms".... nice talking point. It's been awhile since that has been used.

If you aren't aware of the censoring of established professionals in the field of medicine, science, virology then you simply aren't paying attention.

Why don't you look up the Great Barrington Declaration. Some of the most distinguished MD's and scientists at some of the leading world's universities have been censored via social media, but also to include their own universities simply for taking the same position of infectious disease that they had in Dec 2019.

But if you want to believe in the fallacy that it's just gullible internet "anti-vaxxers" then be my guest. If there is one thing over the last year and half it's that you cannot convince people of the magnitude of departure from societal norms perpetrated by this mass physcosis. Because ultimately it's a belief system/worldview disagreement, not a debate over science or public policy and it's seems to be the case here as well.



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Gotta love the ad hominem name calling; clearly well thought logic and reason based discussion.

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/a...b-img_3228.jpg

Shanna, they didn’t want the vaccine, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em die.

Vaccine Stance
 

A person with a terminal cancer diagnosis faces a vastly different scenario than COVID-19 with a 99.7 overall survival rate.

Hospital bed and ICU bed utilization by COVID patients. Select state, city, radius, whatever you want. This is the HHS.gov website. Facts matter.

https://protect-public.hhs.gov/pages...al-utilization

The MSM thrives on fear and sensationalism. That maybe we can all agree on. They also know most Americans are too lazy to do their own research and rely on the MSM to spoon feed them in easily digested ADD small bites. So where is the story on these annoying facts? COVID cases and deaths are plummeting. But please don’t believe me. Go to the CDC website and look for yourself. Select the chart for cases by sex and the chart for deaths by sex. Cases are down near baseline.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra...aphicsovertime

To be fair, the rates were near baseline a year ago as well. Then they skyrocketed during the winter.

Vaccine Stance
 

Each of the major spikes has been a new variant. There hasn’t been any significant news of another variant that has gained any traction. You only have to look at some of the European countries who are a couple months ahead of us to see the Delta variant has significantly waned. There will likely be localized spikes in some regions of the country but the big news that occurred in the southern states with the Delta variant is over. It has burned through.

you guys are all super smart..any of you guys have a clinic to come to...I need my b hole bleached

I get all my news from "Drudge" and I have been scared and fearful since the Clinton era.

Your are probably right. I might just be pointing out a difference without a distinction. What is current practice for non-COVID vaccines? This clause also states visas. I wasn’t required to get one until I was in a base/seat that had trips that went to China.



We shouldn’t erode freedoms and liberties of the 99.8% for the other 0.2%. Especially when we know that the overwhelming majority of the 0.2% are the very elderly or those with specific comorbidities. We should have put mitigations in place to specifically protect them and let others have the freedoms to chose their motivations depending on their risk aversion.




There may be localized areas where ICU beds become constrained from time to time. It doesn’t make sense for the entire country to go into lockdown because some rural town In Louisiana has a shortage of hospital beds. This is why these sorts of decisions should’ve been left entirely to governors and let the feds deal with developing therapeutics, vaccines and the distribution of them.