yea I’m playing devils advocate. Just posing the question…what’s better a contract ASAP or one that comes after DAL…can’t say their’s is going to be crap until it is, and the membership votes yes.

 

If pax carriers get crappy TA’s the company will insist on indexing our numbers to theirs. If they get eye-watering numbers the company will deny that we’re playing the same sport. We need to do our own heavy lifting and stop waiting for someone else to raise the bar for us.


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Based on the behavior and actions of our pilot group we better be happy with just pay parity to the industry. We have shown that most are subcontractors and self serving individuals. They show no ability to add leverage. We are on course to get played again with short term draft/AVA until the economy turns a corner into a downward spiral. No one to blame but ourselves. No Unity or willingness to sacrifice for the betterment of the profession or our pilot group. Even when it’s clear we have been asked for months to step up and do our part.

Ask yourself this. Once the economy slows, draft/ava dries up and staffing is caught up what leverage is left?

Answer: None

We are missing the boat as it pulls out of the harbor.

 

Than why are we part of ALPA? Sounds like we should team up with Browns union

 

Sounds like being part of ALPA is pointless than. Let’s team up with Browns union

 

Have you taken any time to look at the details of the last two UPS extensions? Their pay rates are lower than those proposed in the united TA. They raised their pension plan by a marginal amount and it takes almost 4 more years to hit an annual benefit of 138k annually. You have to be able to do 30 years of service though to get that Max benefit. UPS took 5 years to get there last contract. Shortly after FDX got a contract in 2015 UPS then got a contract. So should we wait 1-2 more years to get a contract if that’s how long it takes another major airline to get a contract? What if the contract they get actually hurts our position?

The union you are a part of isn’t the magic sauce. It’s the leverage your pilot group provides.

 

Got it. So if it was up to you:

contract ASAP, and take an “industry leading contract” until DAL one ups is, like last contact.

 

A few dollars more on a hourly pay rate isn’t an entire contract. In fact your hourly pay rate is a portion of your total w2 compensation. They will never come close on our retirement either. And we haven’t even begun talking about vacation and PBS and the inability to conflict. All of those things add to your W-2 but are not pay rates. I hope pilots are not so shortsided that all they do is stare at an hourly pay rate. That is exactly what management would want you to do while they gut the rest of your soft pay and work rules/retirement/bidding (pbs)/vacation

How about the company agreeing to pay us $450/hour for our max widebody pay rate but you have to give up your pension, vacation and implement PBS? Would you take it since hourly pay rates are so important to you?

Delta didn’t one up us by the way. Our total compensation is substantially higher. Even under this current contract. I was previously at another legacy…..

 

Im all about looking at details. I understand a holistic contract concept. There are other parts of DALs contract that beat ours, ahem, profit sharing and cash over cap.

I’m again, playing devils advocate. Why be part of ALPA if we are just helping all the other carriers? Why not form a union for us and Brown?

Also, I’m not against getting a contract right now. I’m posing the question.

 

They are good questions and hopefully I had some valuable answers. As others have said if we get a great contract it floats all boats. The FDX contract in 2015 did just that. It didn’t get the retirement piece solved but at the time it crushed everyone else’s pay to include work rules and soft pay. We are still industry top in vacation and retirement (probably now tied with brown on retirement depending on age).

Remember cash over cap only comes in to play if you exceed the cap. If most of your career is spent in a narrow body airplane and you don’t exceed or marginally exceed the cap what value is it? Does this force you to work harder to try to achieve a benefit? Profit sharing is only as good as the companies profit. How about guaranteed money instead of variable money based on things you don’t control? Covid and a digression in the economy are proving tough on any value to profit sharing for years.