Lessons Learned at United
07-25-2022 | 07:58 AM
#51
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 370
Likes: 11
There's moderators here? This whole section is an embarrassment to our pilot group and frankly I’m sorry that I even participate because it devolves to crap like this. I originally made some posts to counter the same narrative that is pushed here but that’s a waste of time, clearly.
I’d delete my account if there was an option. I’ll just log off instead, have fun
I’d delete my account if there was an option. I’ll just log off instead, have fun
07-25-2022 | 05:21 PM
#52
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,838
Likes: 0
From the DL thread
“These posts aren’t helping us get a new contract. I keep turning down GS’s. The trips keep getting covered by junior pilots or senior pilots on GS#2. I don’t understand. When I go to work, my captains have all been wearing their hats up to this point. Most are not wearing green lanyards, but are wearing company or plain black lanyards. We haven’t closed out a section since February.
I’m guessing we won’t see a contract for years and our pilots are content with that. It is what it is.”
It seems like some understand the problem. Some act like they don’t. Industry wide problem. This is why we are seeing delayed negotiations throughout the industry and underwhelming extensions and TA proposals. Continue the same behaviors and we will continue to get the same results.
07-26-2022 | 05:41 AM
#53
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,209
Likes: 12
From: MD11 FO
This is my 3rd contract here, and nothings changed. Yawn. I say take care of yourself and your family, do whatever you feel you need to do. Everyone else is and you’re right, they’re bragging about how much extra theyre doing. , no shame, no humility, hence no contract. The extra flying will eventually dry up and they’ll all complain about our sh!tty TA when we get it. Bottom line, You gotta be able to look at yourself in the mirror at the end of the day though.
07-26-2022 | 05:45 AM
#54
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,209
Likes: 12
From: MD11 FO
I’m one to fly my BLG every month, and think all the wh0re$ out there can’t be helping….BUT…doesn’t it make sense we get our contract AFTER all the other airlines?! With pattern bargaining, it’s our turn to go after them (at least DAL and UA).
I guess my point is, if you were calling the shots, would you want a new contract right now or maybe wait a few extra months and get something better?
I guess my point is, if you were calling the shots, would you want a new contract right now or maybe wait a few extra months and get something better?
07-26-2022 | 05:47 AM
#55
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,209
Likes: 12
From: MD11 FO
Have you taken any time to look at the details of the last two UPS extensions? Their pay rates are lower than those proposed in the united TA. They raised their pension plan by a marginal amount and it takes almost 4 more years to hit an annual benefit of 138k annually. You have to be able to do 30 years of service though to get that Max benefit. UPS took 5 years to get there last contract. Shortly after FDX got a contract in 2015 UPS then got a contract. So should we wait 1-2 more years to get a contract if that’s how long it takes another major airline to get a contract? What if the contract they get actually hurts our position?
The union you are a part of isn’t the magic sauce. It’s the leverage your pilot group provides.
The union you are a part of isn’t the magic sauce. It’s the leverage your pilot group provides.
07-26-2022 | 05:56 AM
#56
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,209
Likes: 12
From: MD11 FO
Someone else is probably better suited for that question. Some things that initially come to mind. 1) They have a big voice in DC. 2) Track record of industry leading contracts. Like I said earlier I'm not stuck on the name of the union since it’s only as strong as the pilot group. Isn’t American trying to go back to ALPA? Makes you wonder why
07-26-2022 | 06:42 AM
#57
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,209
Likes: 12
From: MD11 FO
Becauae the resources that ALPA provides are worth the dues. We are only as strong as our individual membership makes our association. The IPA has less than 3000 pilots, don't think they are going to welcome twice that number of un-unified FedEx pilots just looking for an alternative. At the end of the day the volunteers and unity of the pilot group makes a strong union. We as FDX ALPA are some of the most un-unified pilots in the industry and thus we are weak. That has nothing to do with the leadership and everything to do with the "independent contractors" that work here.
07-26-2022 | 06:44 AM
#58
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,209
Likes: 12
From: MD11 FO
We had our own union before. We decided to join ALPA because of the funds available in a larger union. If you are one small group, you don't have the resources of a larger union.
5millionaire, the OP likes to say they are a FedEx pilot and are engaged with the union, yet continues to post things that the MEC says not to post. The OP has also admitted to flying draft in 8 of the 15 months that we have been in negotiations, but their reasons are valid and everyone else is hurting us.
Bottom line, it is an individual decision until we are allowed to enter self help. Everyone likes to tell others what to do, yet has a reason why what they are doing is ok. The contract allows us to fly draft, AVA, deviate on deadheads, sell back vacation, trip trade, pick up trips etc....
We did not crush everyones pay rates when we signed our contract in 2015. We were only a little higher than AA. Prior to our 2015 contract, we were last in pay rates behind, AA, UA, DL, and UPS. We briefly jumped ahead, only to fall behind by 10% or more. We were sold a POS TA by the union and 56% of the group fell for it because they were afraid to challenge the leadership, kind of like the OP and others.
5millionaire, the OP likes to say they are a FedEx pilot and are engaged with the union, yet continues to post things that the MEC says not to post. The OP has also admitted to flying draft in 8 of the 15 months that we have been in negotiations, but their reasons are valid and everyone else is hurting us.
Bottom line, it is an individual decision until we are allowed to enter self help. Everyone likes to tell others what to do, yet has a reason why what they are doing is ok. The contract allows us to fly draft, AVA, deviate on deadheads, sell back vacation, trip trade, pick up trips etc....
We did not crush everyones pay rates when we signed our contract in 2015. We were only a little higher than AA. Prior to our 2015 contract, we were last in pay rates behind, AA, UA, DL, and UPS. We briefly jumped ahead, only to fall behind by 10% or more. We were sold a POS TA by the union and 56% of the group fell for it because they were afraid to challenge the leadership, kind of like the OP and others.
07-26-2022 | 08:09 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,174
Likes: 1
Haven’t we tried an independent union before? How did that work out?
07-26-2022 | 11:24 AM
#60
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,480
Likes: 20
From: Crewmember
Also, what good does the MCF from ALPA national do us, if they won't let us have any of it (2015) because "our" union is so corrupt they won't show them the books?
ALPA national only wants us for our money, plain and simple. What have they done about the "cargo cutout"? Oh, right, we don't really matter to them, now do we?
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