Originally Posted by Noworkallplay

Drop for draft is ok? YGTBSM

Crew Scheduling is scrambling to cover an uncovered trip for tomorrow. They have coverage in 4 days from now to cover your original trip. You bail them out for greed reasons and some see this as ok because you worked the same amount of days? We are fucd.

Same goes for conflicting and then doing all draft/ava. You are bailing them out when they have no coverage. They could give two craps about paying the little extra money. They’re more worried about the revenue they would miss out on if that airplane doesn’t move or frustrating a customer. This is why pilots get played by management. They find a way to justify about anything. Even if it means it’s to the detriment of the group.

Originally Posted by Shaman

These arguments are specious and wrong. And I'm not gonna entertain folks besmirching people's character because in their opinion there's something wrong with improving your quality of life by swapping 1 hour for another. It is not remotely the same as working on a day off.

Anybody that knows me knows I'm the last dude who's working extra, contract negotiation or not.
This level of nitpicking could be directed at anyone and if you've got any real evidence that trip trading is actually counter productive to negotiations go ahead and lay it out. Otherwise reserve that ire for those who deserve it.

Besides I've made my position on these negotiations clear and where I'm coming down on a TA with any concessions in it and I'm happy to wait.

Originally Posted by Tuck

I think you and I disagree as to the value of some of our supposed "influence". I'm not sure I've ever seen any action taken when the ALPA president testifies before Congress - nor do I believe that American, Southwest or UPS pilots were somehow disenfranchised because they didn't testify. When we have similar values those other independent unions gather just as much value (of which I think there is little if any) when ALPA testifies. I used to think there was value in all the synergy shared between ALPA NCs and specific value in things like ALPA's E&FA but then found out that ALPA regularly farms out their org for a la carte pricing to the independent unions - at a much less overall cost. The NCs actually meet well beyond just ALPA - they regularly meet and talk between all the different pilot unions.

No doubt there is compromise when you are part of a large org with various groups but I just don't see the value anymore. We have a lot less money available to spend out of our dues money compared to any of those independent unions - we also have incredibly less say in who we hire to man our office. You want some more lawyers even if you h ave the cash? Well that has to be approved by national and those lawyers come under the CBA of their employee group. You want o remove one or two of your weak staffers? Virtually impossible for the reason.

I completely agree that we are mostly left to our own on negotiations. We get next to zero value from our assigned national attorney - we succeed and fail on our own here at Kirby. The ALPA President will sign almost any CBA we put forth - that's not the issue. The issue is whether we are maximizing value to the Fedex pilot by being part of ALPA. I don't see it. Say you want to change our website or add an app for our members? Any idea how hard that is to do because of the walls ALPA has set up to protect their employees and their work product?

not sure I understand your comment about perdiem?

Originally Posted by Noworkallplay

No it doesn’t. Read the SIG notes. Certain seats and domiciles have good manning. Keep justifying and we will keep getting played. It’s our own faults as pilots.

Justifying drop and draft regardless of staffing is selfish and greedy./QUOTE]

**gasp** someone gets it!

There is at least one fleet that the SIG notes said was facing staffing challenges. People in that fleet conflicting their bid to drop flying are making this challenge even more difficult for the company. Conflicting a 13 day trip to turn around and AVA a 10 day trip is using the contract to squeeze the company even further and get paid more to do less. If the same person were to just fly their line and not bid to intentionally drop as much of their schedule as possible, they would be much more productive and it would be a whole lot easier for scheduling to predict manning and plan their staffing. Accepting a drop for draft when you drop a 5 day trip for a 10 day trip at draft is a whole different story.

Originally Posted by FXLAX

Perdiem is a negotiated item on our contract. As you and I agree, we decide what to negotiate in our contract. So saying ALPA National doesn’t want perdiem raised because it not duesable income, makes no sense.

As for the rest, let’s just say that in my experience within ALPA, I see the value. But then again, I’ve never been part of an independent union. My only other experience comes from a non-union air carrier. Last thing I’ll say, if you look at the minutes and resolutions of the EC, you’ll see that on every single meeting (every 2 months) they are all approving unanimously resolutions for specific things an MEC want, including MCF funds, of which I’m pretty sure FDX is approved.

Anyway, good discussion. I believe that it’s easier/better to improve from within and keep the strength in numbers and money, especially the PAC, what politicians really care about when making decisions on what to support.

Originally Posted by 5millionaire

Im all for flying my line. But I don’t see a problem with someone working the same amount of days at 150%. Isn’t that holding the company MORE accountable? I see the issue with flying extra. But if you conflict and then work to your BLG at 150% how is that helping the company? I’m seriously asking.

Originally Posted by kwri10s

Just fly your line. Not the same footprint of your line, not the same number of days as your line, just your line. If you have CIC conflict then you can pick up your makeup, but that's it. You do not have to take a hit on your pay unless you want to not pick up bidding conflict MU. Many don't. No AVA, no draft, no extensions. There is not pressure on the system every hour of every day. There is pressure here and there. We do not know where that is. It might be MEM departures on one day and total pilots in CDG another. It could be number of pilots turning IND or OAK, it could be 777 CLOE instructors or 767 training instructors, we don't know what the issues are day to day. IF you fly your line then the pressure will show up where it needs to show up, when it needs to show up and we all know the system cannot be flown without a significant portion of the pilots doing extra. All we are asking is to be compensated for our sacrifice and efforts. Just do your job. If you are rationalizing what you are doing then you already know your buddies would say you are wrong. Wear your negotiation lanyard and stop talking to those that cannot be bothered to show they support the other pilots by wearing theirs. Feel free to fight amongst ourselves on whether or not the negotiating team will get us what we want, but your public face and flying schedule needs to be full support.

Originally Posted by 5millionaire

can you comment on why be part of ALPA?