Uh no - they all are - we have no choice in the amount of dues we give or how those dues are spent - as a result very little comes back to us - a bit more than 50% total. We have very little choice (6000 votes out of the total - one vote here is the same as one vote at a Canadian regional) in how national policies and objectives are created. Those are two that just pop to mind.

 

maybe in a vacuum, yes. But you gotta wonder how many of these guys would love to work at National. So: they are on parade every time they have an interaction with anyone at National. I get what you’re saying, if they choose to be…but that begs the question, how many people that “volunteer” are actually selfless “volunteers”? We ***** about all the independent contractors but aren’t some of the union guys also independent contractors?

I’m all for a union. I’m complaining because I like the thought of someone who goes into an office in khakis, gets paid by US(the pilots), to send a few emails and get a free lunch reading this and feeling ashamed.

 

Not that I agree with any of that but it doesn’t refute anything I said. No MEC is EVER beholden to ANYONE at National. That is a fact. No one at National can tell our MEC what to negotiate, how to negotiate, how to handle management relations, what to grieve, what to send to arbitration, when to picket, how to communicate with pilots, etc. All workings of the MEC and its committees, LECs and their workings and committees are done at the direction of only those bodies. All that is fact.

As for Canadian regionals, last I checked, those 20 airlines have one EVP. The FDX MEC has one EVP all for itself. And I’m pretty sure our BOD members outnumber all their BOD members combined when it comes to 6000 pilots.

That’s a whole different issue. We have a pool of pilots we choose as leaders. Whether we choose good ones or not is not my point. But regardless of the letters in the name of the union, we will still choose from the same pool of pilots.




I wasn’t here but how did that work out for everyone? Seems like that union got democratically voted out. As for the MCF, if our mec decided not to use it when they should’ve, that’s a problem with the MEC members, not ALPA National or ALPA as a whole.

I think people get this wrong all the time. They blame ALPA, the organization, for the errors of someone specifically. Would have the exact same governing body made the same decision under the same circumstances if the letters on the door were FPA?

By the way, I’m all for “one level of safety.” But I’m certain that if ALPA National was successful in helping pass a bill that required us to operate under 117, many would be mad at ALPA for it.

 

"Not that I agree with any of that but it doesn’t refute anything I said. No MEC is EVER beholden to ANYONE at National. That is a fact. No one at National can tell our MEC what to negotiate, how to negotiate, how to handle management relations, what to grieve, what to send to arbitration, when to picket, how to communicate with pilots, etc. All workings of the MEC and its committees, LECs and their workings and committees are done at the direction of only those bodies. All that is fact"

It is also a fact that the signature of the ALPA national president is on our contract. Are you sure he does not have input, when he gets to sign off on it?

For example, some folks at ALPA don't want full per diem because it is not pensionable earnings. Another way of saying it doesn't generate dues. Full per diem would really add tax free dollars to the pay of all of our international flyers, but you watch, we will get nickels and dimes. No dues money from per diem, so no large per diem increases. Seems suspicious to me.

 

I think you understand most of the issue but not all of it.
1. National priorities are set by National - Fedex has exactly 6000 votes of the 60,000 votes or so - 1/10. Whereas UPS IPA priorities are set by UPS. We don't have to agree but if national wants to spend $2million from the MCF to help out a small Canadian regional or advocate for policies that may help pax carrier but hurt cargo carriers they can - every time. Just like if national wants to put little effort into stopping remotely operated cargo ops, they can - we get about 1/10 of the votes in that.
2. My point in BOD representation was that the entire FDX MEC represents far less than the entire regionals even though we give far more in dues money.
3. There's no doubt we n eed a union - the question for me is if Fedex pilots' interests are best served by being in ALPA or something else? Let's not compare how we were 24 years ago - we are completely different now. It's better to look at what the IPA lacks that ALPA offers - I'm not sure there's anything. If you have some examples, please list them.
4. We have exactly one EVP - there is exactly 1 EVP within ALPA that represents cargo - all the small cargo carriers share their one EVP with the far greater number of pilots in the smaller regionals. Cargo will also have a very small voice within ALPA - even when we have a former Fedex pilot at the head.

 

That’s the thing with constituencies. Just like in our MEC we have reps with differing priorities depending on them or their constituents’ demographics. That’s what you get when you have a democratic republic type of organization. In that type of governing structure, there will ALWAYS be compromises that are best in whole. Nothing different there when it comes to National or our own MEC.

Yes, the IPA, as a whole, does have one set of priorities (that was a compromise between their reps). But how much do they have in the form of influence where it counts? I have yet to see a representative invited to testify before congress from the IPA. Nor have I seen any IPA reps in advisory committees either. And even if they do eventually get on one, their influence will be directly proportional to the number of their members compared to ALPA.

Let me put it this way since you mentioned FDX being the only large cargo carrier in ALPA, what if IPA merged with ALPA? What would us pilots as a whole gain? Wouldn’t that be better than being independent and losing all influencing abilities, especially considering that national cannot affect our internal issues and how we decide to handle them? I mean, I would be all for changing the name of ALPA to IPA if it meant we are all in the same union. The letters don’t matter, it’s the people that matter. And when we unite, we have a bigger stronger voice. Each MEC is its own entity when it comes to their own company issues but come together when it comes to the piloting profession as a whole.



Show me the last time the president didn’t sign a contract or LOA? Maybe happened once 30 years or so ago. The president is required to follow the administrative manual when it comes to signing his name. As long as the MEC followed the administrative manual when it comes to the negotiation, he has no basis to not sign it. And the interpretation of any of that is not up to him, anyway. The EC has that power.

As for perdiem, like I said, absolutely positively no person at National can tell any MEC what to what not to negotiate for. I mean, they can say not to, but the MEC can laugh it off and ignore it.

 

I know an oak 767 FO. He’s been knocking out his month and picking up trips as Ava or draft. He said their union rep told them at oak base that as long as they didn’t fly more days than what was on their line then it was okay to do ava and draft. Such BS if that’s really happening. Supposedly most of the oak guys are doing it. We don’t have a chance if this is the attitude coming from our union reps. So disappointing.

 

Im all for flying my line. But I don’t see a problem with someone working the same amount of days at 150%. Isn’t that holding the company MORE accountable? I see the issue with flying extra. But if you conflict and then work to your BLG at 150% how is that helping the company? I’m seriously asking.

 

Because if they are drafting, they need that tripped filled now. They approved the conflicts/drops etc. because there is/was enough reserve coverage for those days. There isn't enough reserve coverage on days they're drafting/AVA. You're helping them out with scheduling problems by picking up draft/AVA. The company can afford to pay draft everyday. Monetarily we aren't going to put pressure on the company. It's putting pressure on them being able to fill seats because their oversight on keeping us manned properly..

 

I think you and I disagree as to the value of some of our supposed "influence". I'm not sure I've ever seen any action taken when the ALPA president testifies before Congress - nor do I believe that American, Southwest or UPS pilots were somehow disenfranchised because they didn't testify. When we have similar values those other independent unions gather just as much value (of which I think there is little if any) when ALPA testifies. I used to think there was value in all the synergy shared between ALPA NCs and specific value in things like ALPA's E&FA but then found out that ALPA regularly farms out their org for a la carte pricing to the independent unions - at a much less overall cost. The NCs actually meet well beyond just ALPA - they regularly meet and talk between all the different pilot unions.

No doubt there is compromise when you are part of a large org with various groups but I just don't see the value anymore. We have a lot less money available to spend out of our dues money compared to any of those independent unions - we also have incredibly less say in who we hire to man our office. You want some more lawyers even if you h ave the cash? Well that has to be approved by national and those lawyers come under the CBA of their employee group. You want o remove one or two of your weak staffers? Virtually impossible for the reason.

I completely agree that we are mostly left to our own on negotiations. We get next to zero value from our assigned national attorney - we succeed and fail on our own here at Kirby. The ALPA President will sign almost any CBA we put forth - that's not the issue. The issue is whether we are maximizing value to the Fedex pilot by being part of ALPA. I don't see it. Say you want to change our website or add an app for our members? Any idea how hard that is to do because of the walls ALPA has set up to protect their employees and their work product?

not sure I understand your comment about perdiem?