Delta’s New Pay Scale
03-03-2023, 10:35 AM
#42
Aspiring PSA Captain
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 831
Originally Posted by threeighteen
You’re turning the classic “screw the new guys, I need to get mine” argument around and putting it on the new guys.
The new guys haven’t had a chance to shoot down a contract yet. The old guys have had three opportunities to fix the pension. 2006, 2011, and 2015. But instead of holding the line to do it, they rolled over and voted yes on the first offer each time. You even admitted to voting yes on some of those awful deals.
Why should the new guys accept more concessions, or even a deal that's worth less than what all of us deserve in order to give the old guys a golden parachute pension bump when the old guys voted yes on concessionary and substandard contracts in 06, 11, and 15?
The old guys have had some of the best careers of any of their peers in the industry (especially the last 2-3 years, holy crap. Nothing like making peanuts on first year pay sitting next to a guy who's too cheap to grab the van tip for the newbie but happy to show you his pay stub that shows $500k YTD income and it's not even June yet) and now they want to choke the golden goose on their way out and leave the new guys with the corpse… any concession is ok as long as they get their pension.
No junior guy wants to “screw” the old guys, but we sure as hell don’t want to sacrifice the future to fund the retirement of the guys who were too feckless to improve it the last three contracts either. We’d all love to see all of us get a better retirement plan, but unlike the old guys we’re not interested in trading away the few work rules we have left in order to achieve that. Nor are we willing to accept pay rates that don’t lead the industry by a mile to achieve that.
And nobody owes you gratitude for not allowing the pilot group to be divided by two different retirement plans in 2015. You didn’t go above and beyond by doing that, that was literally the minimum expectation and you barely met it.
Whatever happened to leave a place better than you found it? Don’t throw a match on the squadron on your way out?
No new guy has “gotten theirs” yet. Not even close. They’re still trying to recover from training pay which, even at $4000/mo is less purchasing power than you had when it was $2000/mo.
You’re delusional.
Also your time on the panel is 100% irrelevant.
The new guys haven’t had a chance to shoot down a contract yet. The old guys have had three opportunities to fix the pension. 2006, 2011, and 2015. But instead of holding the line to do it, they rolled over and voted yes on the first offer each time. You even admitted to voting yes on some of those awful deals.
Why should the new guys accept more concessions, or even a deal that's worth less than what all of us deserve in order to give the old guys a golden parachute pension bump when the old guys voted yes on concessionary and substandard contracts in 06, 11, and 15?
The old guys have had some of the best careers of any of their peers in the industry (especially the last 2-3 years, holy crap. Nothing like making peanuts on first year pay sitting next to a guy who's too cheap to grab the van tip for the newbie but happy to show you his pay stub that shows $500k YTD income and it's not even June yet) and now they want to choke the golden goose on their way out and leave the new guys with the corpse… any concession is ok as long as they get their pension.
No junior guy wants to “screw” the old guys, but we sure as hell don’t want to sacrifice the future to fund the retirement of the guys who were too feckless to improve it the last three contracts either. We’d all love to see all of us get a better retirement plan, but unlike the old guys we’re not interested in trading away the few work rules we have left in order to achieve that. Nor are we willing to accept pay rates that don’t lead the industry by a mile to achieve that.
And nobody owes you gratitude for not allowing the pilot group to be divided by two different retirement plans in 2015. You didn’t go above and beyond by doing that, that was literally the minimum expectation and you barely met it.
Whatever happened to leave a place better than you found it? Don’t throw a match on the squadron on your way out?
No new guy has “gotten theirs” yet. Not even close. They’re still trying to recover from training pay which, even at $4000/mo is less purchasing power than you had when it was $2000/mo.
You’re delusional.
Also your time on the panel is 100% irrelevant.
I was here for all of those contracts. Guess what? We hadn't hired JACK $H!T for years (decades). The old guys were a controlling demographic by a huge margin. Those of us who were "young" for those contracts (and I voted no for every one, as did everyone in my age group that I know), were VASTLY outnumbered. We're the old guys now, once again outnumbered by massive retirements and even more massive unnecessary hiring.
We are all gonna eat 68 hr (or worse) guarantees to keep people we don't need (at least until Raj goes for broke and furloughs). Consider that my contribution to the new guys.
Miss me with your completely misplaced and irrelevant blame trope and let's get a contract with all of it.
03-03-2023, 01:11 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2021
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by threeighteen
You’re turning the classic “screw the new guys, I need to get mine” argument around and putting it on the new guys.
The new guys haven’t had a chance to shoot down a contract yet. The old guys have had three opportunities to fix the pension. 2006, 2011, and 2015. But instead of holding the line to do it, they rolled over and voted yes on the first offer each time. You even admitted to voting yes on some of those awful deals.
Why should the new guys accept more concessions, or even a deal that's worth less than what all of us deserve in order to give the old guys a golden parachute pension bump when the old guys voted yes on concessionary and substandard contracts in 06, 11, and 15?
The old guys have had some of the best careers of any of their peers in the industry (especially the last 2-3 years, holy crap. Nothing like making peanuts on first year pay sitting next to a guy who's too cheap to grab the van tip for the newbie but happy to show you his pay stub that shows $500k YTD income and it's not even June yet) and now they want to choke the golden goose on their way out and leave the new guys with the corpse… any concession is ok as long as they get their pension.
No junior guy wants to “screw” the old guys, but we sure as hell don’t want to sacrifice the future to fund the retirement of the guys who were too feckless to improve it the last three contracts either. We’d all love to see all of us get a better retirement plan, but unlike the old guys we’re not interested in trading away the few work rules we have left in order to achieve that. Nor are we willing to accept pay rates that don’t lead the industry by a mile to achieve that.
And nobody owes you gratitude for not allowing the pilot group to be divided by two different retirement plans in 2015. You didn’t go above and beyond by doing that, that was literally the minimum expectation and you barely met it.
Whatever happened to leave a place better than you found it? Don’t throw a match on the squadron on your way out?
No new guy has “gotten theirs” yet. Not even close. They’re still trying to recover from training pay which, even at $4000/mo is less purchasing power than you had when it was $2000/mo.
You’re delusional.
Also your time on the panel is 100% irrelevant.
The new guys haven’t had a chance to shoot down a contract yet. The old guys have had three opportunities to fix the pension. 2006, 2011, and 2015. But instead of holding the line to do it, they rolled over and voted yes on the first offer each time. You even admitted to voting yes on some of those awful deals.
Why should the new guys accept more concessions, or even a deal that's worth less than what all of us deserve in order to give the old guys a golden parachute pension bump when the old guys voted yes on concessionary and substandard contracts in 06, 11, and 15?
The old guys have had some of the best careers of any of their peers in the industry (especially the last 2-3 years, holy crap. Nothing like making peanuts on first year pay sitting next to a guy who's too cheap to grab the van tip for the newbie but happy to show you his pay stub that shows $500k YTD income and it's not even June yet) and now they want to choke the golden goose on their way out and leave the new guys with the corpse… any concession is ok as long as they get their pension.
No junior guy wants to “screw” the old guys, but we sure as hell don’t want to sacrifice the future to fund the retirement of the guys who were too feckless to improve it the last three contracts either. We’d all love to see all of us get a better retirement plan, but unlike the old guys we’re not interested in trading away the few work rules we have left in order to achieve that. Nor are we willing to accept pay rates that don’t lead the industry by a mile to achieve that.
And nobody owes you gratitude for not allowing the pilot group to be divided by two different retirement plans in 2015. You didn’t go above and beyond by doing that, that was literally the minimum expectation and you barely met it.
Whatever happened to leave a place better than you found it? Don’t throw a match on the squadron on your way out?
No new guy has “gotten theirs” yet. Not even close. They’re still trying to recover from training pay which, even at $4000/mo is less purchasing power than you had when it was $2000/mo.
You’re delusional.
Also your time on the panel is 100% irrelevant.
And to be abundantly clear it’s not about screwing the old guys. It’s the EXACT OPPOSITE. I’d prefer to not have the old guys screw me, because well, I am scared to death when it comes time to a vote and there's a TA with concessions sprinkled about, with a great pension increase, and maybe even industry leading rates, the guys near retirement will see nothing other than the pension increase, or will somehow justify voting yes to themselves because the concessions "aren't that bad," or "won't affect many of us." . I've had the conversation on the line about rumored concessions, and generally what I hear is "well if the A-plan becomes x...," followed up by the comments I already quoted.
Believe me I'm hoping we all get the retirement increases we deserve, but I just hope its not at the expense of people like myself that will have to continue to work under the other sections of contract for decades to come, because if there's anything thats for certain, once something is given up, it's gone, or if it does come back, it will be at the expense of exponentially more negotiating capital in the future.
Last edited by Linepilot63; 03-03-2023 at 01:23 PM.
03-03-2023, 01:23 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,099
Originally Posted by Linepilot63
Wow. Nail on the ahead across the board here.
And to be abundantly clear it’s not about screwing the old guys. It’s actually the EXACT opposite. I’d prefer to not have the old guys screw me, because well, I will still be working here while the “old guys” are collecting their pension, not still working under whatever is voted in.
And to be abundantly clear it’s not about screwing the old guys. It’s actually the EXACT opposite. I’d prefer to not have the old guys screw me, because well, I will still be working here while the “old guys” are collecting their pension, not still working under whatever is voted in.
Originally Posted by BlueMoon
Am I the only one ok with 68hr lines?
03-03-2023, 01:26 PM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2021
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by Merle Haggard
I was here for all of those contracts. Guess what? We hadn't hired JACK $H!T for years (decades). The old guys were a controlling demographic by a huge margin. Those of us who were "young" for those contracts (and I voted no for every one, as did everyone in my age group that I know), were VASTLY outnumbered. We're the old guys now, once again outnumbered by massive retirements and even more massive unnecessary hiring.
We are all gonna eat 68 hr (or worse) guarantees to keep people we don't need (at least until Raj goes for broke and furloughs). Consider that my contribution to the new guys.
03-03-2023, 01:27 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 777 Captain in Training
Posts: 1,457
Originally Posted by UnusualAttitude
Irrelevant and insulting.
They’ve just gotta make sure they can rip the A plan parachute and grab there bag of bonus money on the way out the door when the rest of the new book is full of concessions and a lack luster rates. So frustrating. I’m getting so tired of hearing about fixing the pension they elected to not address during multiple bargaining cycles over the past 20+ years.
03-03-2023, 01:27 PM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2021
Posts: 446
To the young pilots I have one question.
When you are approaching retirement, How are the then young pilots going to think of you and your efforts? Are they going to push to improve retirement for you? Are they going to appreciate your efforts for improving the CBA? Your union volunteerism? The amount of negotiation capital you spend on fixing secondary lines, reserve, training issues, FDA issues?
When is it your turn to roll up your sleeves and serve your fellow pilots?
When are you going to attend local council meetings, recall reps that are not working for you, in short when are you going to get involved.
If every pilot gave 1% of their time, we would have 1000 pilots at every local council meeting in MEM and every rep would have 1500 email a quarter. The last local council meeting had 67 line pilots. The one before, 21.
How do you want to be remembered as you are approaching retirement?
Oh and I lied about having just one question, who knew.
When you are approaching retirement, How are the then young pilots going to think of you and your efforts? Are they going to push to improve retirement for you? Are they going to appreciate your efforts for improving the CBA? Your union volunteerism? The amount of negotiation capital you spend on fixing secondary lines, reserve, training issues, FDA issues?
When is it your turn to roll up your sleeves and serve your fellow pilots?
When are you going to attend local council meetings, recall reps that are not working for you, in short when are you going to get involved.
If every pilot gave 1% of their time, we would have 1000 pilots at every local council meeting in MEM and every rep would have 1500 email a quarter. The last local council meeting had 67 line pilots. The one before, 21.
How do you want to be remembered as you are approaching retirement?
Oh and I lied about having just one question, who knew.
03-03-2023, 01:32 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2021
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by threeighteen
Exactly. He’s accusing the young guys of exactly what the old guys are trying to do. Which is why I’m not letting him do it.
Honestly I’m enjoying these too. I prefer not working myself into an early grave.
Honestly I’m enjoying these too. I prefer not working myself into an early grave.
Delta just inked a deal with zero concessions and gains in QOL, scope, work rules, compensation, and retirement, and I repeat with no concessions. If we are presented with anything less than that I want to see guys actually vote no. My fear is we're going to see the pension and the rest of it will be overlooked or downplayed in importance until its too late (scope.) Prove me wrong, if the rumors are true, vote no. Period.
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