Delta’s New Pay Scale
03-04-2023 | 12:28 PM
#72
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Don’t be nervous, Be determined. This company went from record profits to the poor house in two quarters time? If that’s the case, the board would be negligent not to fire all the top brass for incompetence. We’re going to cost them billions in this new contract. It’s just a cost of doing business. If they don’t need you, they’ll furlough you without blinking an eye. It’s just business. Remember, it’s a game and they’re really good at it. Think of it as your worst car buying experience x 10.
03-04-2023 | 12:28 PM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,174
Likes: 1
No words said or actions by management will change what we deserve or can attain. It may take a lot of patience but it is attainable. And if you can live off of BLG at current pay, then we should have patience in abundance.
03-04-2023 | 12:55 PM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,201
Likes: 32
From: 4A2FU
Our "bad" quarters are about the same profit as a good quarter over at a legacy airline.
Our "good" quarters make them look like lemonade stands.
Experienced pilots are not cheap, and they aren't getting cheaper. Even if FedEx decides to shrink Express, we will still need to hire for attrition and that will require an excellent contract due to the more difficult nature of the flying that we do.
03-04-2023 | 01:19 PM
#75
New Hire
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
The issue is that Raj and Lenz aren’t really driving the bus anymore. It’s DE Shaw calling the shots now. This is unprecedented. They want to potentially trim Express by 30-40 %. Growth in e-commerce = transferring more freight to Ground. Lots of talk about making Express more like UPS.
I hate hedge funds and this whole DE Shaw development both scares me and also has me in a really pugnacious sort of mood, especially with everything we had to put up with throughout the pandemic.
I’m anxiously awaiting April 5 like Bubs and everyone else.
I hate hedge funds and this whole DE Shaw development both scares me and also has me in a really pugnacious sort of mood, especially with everything we had to put up with throughout the pandemic.
I’m anxiously awaiting April 5 like Bubs and everyone else.
03-04-2023 | 01:22 PM
#76
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 781
Likes: 14
03-04-2023 | 02:05 PM
#77
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 781
Likes: 0
From: Wichita
Don’t be nervous, Be determined. This company went from record profits to the poor house in two quarters time? If that’s the case, the board would be negligent not to fire all the top brass for incompetence. We’re going to cost them billions in this new contract. It’s just a cost of doing business. If they don’t need you, they’ll furlough you without blinking an eye. It’s just business. Remember, it’s a game and they’re really good at it. Think of it as your worst car buying experience x 10.
But no concessions (unlike the last 3 contracts).
Last edited by JackStraw; 03-04-2023 at 02:24 PM.
03-04-2023 | 02:25 PM
#78
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 864
Likes: 50
From: B767
Danger of the False Dillema
Returning to the topic of this thread, Delta pay rates. Beware the danger of the well known fallacy, the False Dilemma.
"A false dilemma (sometimes also referred to as a false dichotomy) is a logical fallacy, which occurs when a limited number of options are incorrectly presented as being mutually exclusive to one another or as being the only options that exist, in a situation where that isn’t the case. For example, a false dilemma occurs in a situation where someone says that we must choose between options A or B, without mentioning that option C also exists."
"False dilemmas often play a role in people’s internal reasoning process, when they misunderstand or misinterpret situations. Furthermore, false dilemmas are also frequently used intentionally for rhetorical purposes in various ways, such as to oversimplify complex situations by turning theminto misleading dichotomies, or to frame issues in a way that pressures people to accept a certain stance."
If you read JetFlyers you will see that the regular suspects have come out of the woodwork after a long hiatus. You will easily recognize them because they are back to their old tricks. "If you want Delta pay rates then you must accept Delta's contract in its entirety." "You want Delta's compensation, then we have to accept PBS and give up our vacation." "I was on a Delta flight and the A330 FO says he wishes he was at FedEx so our contract is better and don't bother reading theirs." "What are you willing to give up to secure Scope." These couple of guys have never seen a concession they didn't like as long as their corners of the contract are protected. Do not fall for this false dilemma and don't let your reps tell you that there are only two simple paths. Negotiations are nuanced and reasonable solutions exist.
I suggest these type of alternative arguments: We already have a sizable portion of our pilot group that receives their monthly assignments via PBS. PBS isn't the issue, the language surrounding conflicts is where the flexibility in our vacation exists. This is an oversimplification and I am not in favor of PBS but the fact that it wasn't even presented by the Company tells you that they've gotten all of the efficiency they need.
False Dilemmas and False Dichotomies: What They Are and How to Respond to Them
"A false dilemma (sometimes also referred to as a false dichotomy) is a logical fallacy, which occurs when a limited number of options are incorrectly presented as being mutually exclusive to one another or as being the only options that exist, in a situation where that isn’t the case. For example, a false dilemma occurs in a situation where someone says that we must choose between options A or B, without mentioning that option C also exists."
"False dilemmas often play a role in people’s internal reasoning process, when they misunderstand or misinterpret situations. Furthermore, false dilemmas are also frequently used intentionally for rhetorical purposes in various ways, such as to oversimplify complex situations by turning theminto misleading dichotomies, or to frame issues in a way that pressures people to accept a certain stance."
If you read JetFlyers you will see that the regular suspects have come out of the woodwork after a long hiatus. You will easily recognize them because they are back to their old tricks. "If you want Delta pay rates then you must accept Delta's contract in its entirety." "You want Delta's compensation, then we have to accept PBS and give up our vacation." "I was on a Delta flight and the A330 FO says he wishes he was at FedEx so our contract is better and don't bother reading theirs." "What are you willing to give up to secure Scope." These couple of guys have never seen a concession they didn't like as long as their corners of the contract are protected. Do not fall for this false dilemma and don't let your reps tell you that there are only two simple paths. Negotiations are nuanced and reasonable solutions exist.
I suggest these type of alternative arguments: We already have a sizable portion of our pilot group that receives their monthly assignments via PBS. PBS isn't the issue, the language surrounding conflicts is where the flexibility in our vacation exists. This is an oversimplification and I am not in favor of PBS but the fact that it wasn't even presented by the Company tells you that they've gotten all of the efficiency they need.
False Dilemmas and False Dichotomies: What They Are and How to Respond to Them
03-04-2023 | 02:53 PM
#79
On Reserve
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Returning to the topic of this thread, Delta pay rates. Beware the danger of the well known fallacy, the False Dilemma.
"A false dilemma (sometimes also referred to as a false dichotomy) is a logical fallacy, which occurs when a limited number of options are incorrectly presented as being mutually exclusive to one another or as being the only options that exist, in a situation where that isn’t the case. For example, a false dilemma occurs in a situation where someone says that we must choose between options A or B, without mentioning that option C also exists."
"False dilemmas often play a role in people’s internal reasoning process, when they misunderstand or misinterpret situations. Furthermore, false dilemmas are also frequently used intentionally for rhetorical purposes in various ways, such as to oversimplify complex situations by turning theminto misleading dichotomies, or to frame issues in a way that pressures people to accept a certain stance."
If you read JetFlyers you will see that the regular suspects have come out of the woodwork after a long hiatus. You will easily recognize them because they are back to their old tricks. "If you want Delta pay rates then you must accept Delta's contract in its entirety." "You want Delta's compensation, then we have to accept PBS and give up our vacation." "I was on a Delta flight and the A330 FO says he wishes he was at FedEx so our contract is better and don't bother reading theirs." "What are you willing to give up to secure Scope." These couple of guys have never seen a concession they didn't like as long as their corners of the contract are protected. Do not fall for this false dilemma and don't let your reps tell you that there are only two simple paths. Negotiations are nuanced and reasonable solutions exist.
I suggest these type of alternative arguments: We already have a sizable portion of our pilot group that receives their monthly assignments via PBS. PBS isn't the issue, the language surrounding conflicts is where the flexibility in our vacation exists. This is an oversimplification and I am not in favor of PBS but the fact that it wasn't even presented by the Company tells you that they've gotten all of the efficiency they need.
False Dilemmas and False Dichotomies: What They Are and How to Respond to Them
"A false dilemma (sometimes also referred to as a false dichotomy) is a logical fallacy, which occurs when a limited number of options are incorrectly presented as being mutually exclusive to one another or as being the only options that exist, in a situation where that isn’t the case. For example, a false dilemma occurs in a situation where someone says that we must choose between options A or B, without mentioning that option C also exists."
"False dilemmas often play a role in people’s internal reasoning process, when they misunderstand or misinterpret situations. Furthermore, false dilemmas are also frequently used intentionally for rhetorical purposes in various ways, such as to oversimplify complex situations by turning theminto misleading dichotomies, or to frame issues in a way that pressures people to accept a certain stance."
If you read JetFlyers you will see that the regular suspects have come out of the woodwork after a long hiatus. You will easily recognize them because they are back to their old tricks. "If you want Delta pay rates then you must accept Delta's contract in its entirety." "You want Delta's compensation, then we have to accept PBS and give up our vacation." "I was on a Delta flight and the A330 FO says he wishes he was at FedEx so our contract is better and don't bother reading theirs." "What are you willing to give up to secure Scope." These couple of guys have never seen a concession they didn't like as long as their corners of the contract are protected. Do not fall for this false dilemma and don't let your reps tell you that there are only two simple paths. Negotiations are nuanced and reasonable solutions exist.
I suggest these type of alternative arguments: We already have a sizable portion of our pilot group that receives their monthly assignments via PBS. PBS isn't the issue, the language surrounding conflicts is where the flexibility in our vacation exists. This is an oversimplification and I am not in favor of PBS but the fact that it wasn't even presented by the Company tells you that they've gotten all of the efficiency they need.
False Dilemmas and False Dichotomies: What They Are and How to Respond to Them
And to the point that if we're going to get Delta's rates, we need to take their whole contract? Our openers literally say "to establish industry leading hourly rates of pay". Stop negotiating on the company's behalf you dolts.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
