The pilots did try to improve the pension on every contract and the MEC and NC sold them out. And you do know contributing to a 401K is optional and maybe not every pilot has a FAT 401k. You have the same earning and saving potential as every pilot here. Some day you'll be in a position to retire and the things that mean the most to you will undoubtably be different then than now. And there are many pilots who didn't work extra during the past two years. With your all about me attitude I can see you'd be willing to sell out the junior guys when you retire. And then, you'll have junior guys ****ed at you and your FAT 401K.

 

Nope. I'm willing to hold the line for a TA that gives retro retirement to anyone who's retired since amendable date, and I'm willing to hold the line for scope. And I'm voting no if the TA doesn't do both of those things (and also voting no for a host of other reasons).

However I'm extremely annoyed that the NC refused to negotiate retro-retirement and compensation like that and now they've divided us into those retiring soon vs everyone else, which compromises our deal.

I just simply don't feel too bad for any captain retiring right now under the current terms. If your financial house isn't in order to retire with the current pension after the opportunities of the last 3 years and your 401k isn't fat, a pension bump isn't going to save you. You have budgeting problems, and you had the opportunity to organize an effort to fix the pension in the previous CBAs.

 

Once an employee retires, i do not believe that the retirement is legally allowed to be altered. So as much as we may like retro retirement, I do not believe that’s an achievable goal.

 

Why does everyone think that those retiring soon have been here 30 years and have fat 401s and max retirement ? There are several guys here who have not reached the max for the high five and will be retiring with WAY less then the cap of 25 years..

 

Source?

If true, then give them a lump sum.

If you don't take care of them, if you don't demand full retro pay, you are setting yourselves up for future contracts to be dragged out for 2 years over and over and over.

Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.

My union, who promised to leave no one behind, will do exactly that if they don't take care of all that have retired since the amendable date.

Shame on the MEC.

 

a very small handful... and of that handful, how many are collecting military retirements?

If you've been here 8-10 years and haven't hit your high 5 yet, I have to ask... why did you choose not to? Because with that kind of seniority/longevity, it absolutely is a choice.

 

Does any other contract have that provision to make retired since amendable date whole?

 

To me, it sounds like he is hinting to all of us new guys that we should start thinking about being furloughed. The same reason none of us got warm fuzzies listening to PM's update. There needs to be way more transparency on what the company wants the pilot group to look like.

 

I watched the video and PM is right about scope. It wasn't the priority until the company publicly announced it cost cutting measures. Now everyone is all twitterpated about scope and 4a2c and furloughs and belly freight and declining volumes. Very few of you seem particularly suspicious of the timing and most are content to offer vapid speculation about how this will play out completely disregarding the macro and microeconomic factors that haven't changed since that announcement. You continue to spread the FUD and it is self amplifying. Management is gleefully watching our resolve melt away.


I watched the video twice. PM is where he always was and where they guided us to be. To get a quick deal that fixes retirement. His mission is to get a TA. Not the best TA possible but what HE believes is achievable. Where we are is very much the result of strategy put in place by him and the leadership of this union. Our openers were woefully inadequate and our ask on pay is so far below market rates that any move towards the company position on pay would be UNRATIFAIABLE. I listen to him equivocate, talking about what was and what is, but what we DESERVE is market based pay for pilots. FedEx doesn't get special pilot labor pay concession because they all of a sudden are showing up with their pockets turned out. Especially after announcing a dividend increase and 5 Billion worth of stock buybacks. The part where PM blatantly uses UPS's interim contract pay rates as the metric by which a TA should be measured speaks volumes about where we are. If he's speaking for you then you and I are not aligned. We are divided not by angry rhetoric but by actual principle. He spoke and I am listening and I don't need to read a TA generated by a group willing to offer a substandard contract "that will pass".


Lets face it there's plenty of people in this thread especially the "My NC speaks for me crowd" who will vote for whatever TA is produced. They aren't anomalous either, in fact they are legion. They are what got us the 2015 contract which didn't include retirement improvements and has been used to pick our pockets ever since. Anyone who says otherwise even with the benefit of hindsight is either a management stooge or a troll. We are rapidly marching down that path again and those concerned should continue to speak about it here, elsewhere on social media, and in person. Its pretty clear they are listening. They should be aware well in advance if they cobble together a weak "but look at the total value" TA and come out here to start selling it that they will be met with vocal resistance and their efforts will fail. We aren't their adversaries the people cynically trying to limit our participation in the financial windfall that we facilitated are .

 

Military retirements should not be considered. Many of us served in the military, but were riffed during the 90's and don't have a military retirement.