Nope, UAL still has an offset.

 

You were the one who said that our WB rates were banded to the majors highest rate. I showed that wasn't the case.

Which two, UAL has an offset as well.

Where did I say anything about PBS? You are confusing me with another poster.

This discussion is about 757 rates. I simply pointed out that saying our 757 rates should be tied to UAL, DAL, or AA because they are industry standard is a dangerous argument. For 17 years, our 757 has been tied to our NB rate. When we got the 777, the arbitrator agreed with the company that we have a NB and WB rate. Now, if we say we want industry standard rates, how do we keep our 767 and Airbus at WB rates. They aren't industry standard. They also comprise about 35% of our crewforce.

I have no problem trying to make things better. We just better make sure our arguments for one item don't hurt another item.

 

This exactly!

 

Their AIP guide said that offsets were removed unless you accept another position at UAL. Is that not correct?

 

Well, I don't know what they said, but in June 2012, DALPA signed a contract with their top WB for 2012 at $235 per hour. Our rate in March of 2012 was $261 per hour. So, they took a rate that was about $26 per hour less than ours. In December of 2012, UAL did the same thing.

I don't know what their guide said, but 24.H.4 of their contract says they still have an offset.

 

Not to minimize it. But how long were you Furloughed?

 

I personally wasn't. I left AA on my own accord, but I was I done with the place.

I know the actual furlough was very short, but it was technically a furlough, none the less. That was painfully evident when it came time to train the recalled pilots back up and the length of time it took to requal them.

Whether I was personally furloughed or not is irrelevant. I was just correcting a small amount of the piles and piles misinformation that plagues this site (and others).

 

I specifically said that AA furloughed and then unfurloughed very shortly later. With back pay. I don’t intend nor desire to minimize how terrible the experience was. That said, Delta also had the exact same nightmare with recalling and training their pilots that they benched too, despite not officially furloughing. The training snafu doesn’t add any weight to whether or not a furlough occurred. It’s just a reflection of managements’ bad decisions.

 

Our WB rates were comporable to other's top pay aircraft. That's what I said only becuase I saw the pay rate comparison tables from contract TAs from the 2000s.

Yes, UAL has offsets. I wasn't including pbgc offsets (that only affect those who have a pension and are on ltd) and offsets that expire after 3 years. And they did get rid of the other offsets. Nonetheless, that is still more closer to standard than ours. So it doesn't hurt the case I was making.

As for getting you confused, maybe. I was replying to max who throws out the pbs argment. Then you came into the conversation. Not tryint to put words in your mouth.

Ok, the 757. I agree with you there...up to the point that the UAL TA was ratified. Now industry standard is that the 757 is pay banded with the 767-300. This is not a disengenous argument unless you think you can make the arugment that since the 757 paid $120/hour (or whatever it was) 17 years ago that we cannot say it needs to be hiegh now along with other's contractual gains on the 757.

Peronally, I'd like to see a single blended rate with credit for training savings.

 

Are you a 757 guy?

Simple solution for getting higher rates for the 757 is to go to 767.........you don't have to change the industry, the company, or the contract....just your relative seniority.

You need to fight for what's right in your mind as you see it, but sometimes Don Quixote would have been better off taking the easier path....

I also need to take my own advice as I have often times tried to cultivate martyrdom as my profession.