Like others have said, the idea of logging PIC from the back seat is pretty ridiculous under most circumstances...I would not care to try and explain that to an employer, regardless of what possible legal loopholes you might imagine. Employers just want an honest representation of your flight experience, calculated according to generally accepted industry practices.

There is one totally legit way to log PIC from the back seat in GA flight instruction...in a 141 flight operations, a 141 chief pilot can do a flight check on a 141 instructor. Student and instructor in the front, CP in the back. 100% legit because the 141 flight checks are required by the FARs.

 

Here is my take on this:
- If back seat is a MEI - he/she would need to have 5 hours in make and model before being able to teach in it and log dual given.
- If right seat guy is a safety pilot - he would need to have a ME private or commercial and can only log time as PIC when the left seat guy is under the hood.
- If left seat guy is the sole manipulator, he would need to be under the hood the entire flight so the safety pilot can PIC. Obviously, the MEI would have to sign this pilot's log book as dual given and this pilot will probably be in instrument training in the twin.

If you do this make sure that both pilots understand that you (the MEI) in the back seat is the acting PIC. I personally wouldn't recommend doing this.

In the end, you can log whatever you think is right and want, but trying to justify it to an employer, FAA inspector or DE is a different story.

Agreed! The chief pilot at the last flight school that I worked for did this all the time.

 

1-just to keep it simple.....the back seater is an MEI so why does he need to be logging this flight in the back seat while he can be teaching a student up front on a different flight. Is multi aircraft being sold? are the hours that important?

2- like others have said in other threads, its your log book log whatever you want but make sure you can back it up with FARs and be able to explain it.

 

I can think of one time that the FARs require you to log PIC time when you are not in a pilot seat. If you are assigned by your employer as Captain in a 121 Flag operation with scheduled flight time over eight hours for an aircraft with a required crew of two, or twelve hours for an aircraft with a required crew of three, you need a relief pilot. The Captain continues to log PIC while he is in the bunk.

Joe

 

What in 61.51 that allows a check pilot to log anything in this situation? I'm not saying you're wrong but I'm not aware of anything official that says that a 141 check pilot is deemed to be an providing instruction to the examinee, so I'm curious.

 

The student can log it if he is rated.

The instructor can log it because he is acting as an authorized instructor.

The CP can log it since he is ultimately responsible for the conduct of the flight, and he is a required crewmember under part 141 for the operation in question (annual instructor flight check). Same as a 121 check airman in the jumpseat.

 

Ah I didn't realize that the check pilot in a 141 operation was required crew, logging under 61.51(e)(iii) (PIC + required pilot). Never heard that before.

So, the CP at a 141 school is outside the general rule of instructors not requiring a medical? And also different from a DPE since a DPE is by rule not PIC. Do you have any 141 references for that? I'd be interested in the 121 reference also.

 

Only if the training being conducted is for a certificate or rating.

 

Good point. I forgot to mention it.

 

141 Instructor annual checks are a regulatory requirement...since you cannot conduct a 141 annual check without the chief pilot (or Asst CP/ check instructor), that person is obviously a required crewmember for the mission at hand. Same with 121.