LeoSV

Well, I dropped it because my instructor was lame, and when I went to JAX, they dropped me off at an apartment with 3 other guys and the place was filthy. My instructor wouldn't let me fully control the plane during landings. When you talk to the people at the ATP office, they're rude. I watched somebody in a sim practicing for thier CFI checkride, and the student would ask a question to clarify, and the instructor would just bark back at him, "don't worry, just do it this way, or do it that way" with no explanation. That also was a complete turnoff. I'm paying 45K to be treated like an idiot? You can keep that!! 22 year olds that are "building time" make terrible instructors, I don't care what you say. If you're young, this is easier to stomach. When you're closing in on 30, if you're not in the military, being barked at by somebody 8 years younger than you does nothing but make you mad.

C152driver

ctd57,

You know, now that I think about it, one of the guys that I talked with at a local FBO had been to ATP to get his MEI. At the time of the conversation, I had about 80 hours of multi and he had something like 60, with virtually no given instruction in a twin. That wasnt a situation that I was interested in, so I ended up going to another local instructor who has done quite a few CFI's and MEI's.

So, I retract my previous statement about my experience with ATP MEI's.

I will say this about the MEI's from the Atlanta location of ATP: I was impressed that they took the time to make follow up phone calls on my initial inquiry to them. Several of the other places/people that I spoke with didnt do that at all.

444KA

All ATPs is strictly a timebuilding operation. At my flight school we have several "graduates" who got their ME/MEIs there. There are not allowed to fly our ME airplanes without going thru extensive training because all they have learned how to do is pass a checkride.

N6724G

Leo,
Just curious but what does age have to do with it? I am 37 so I guess I should get mad if a 29 year ols yelled at me? But if I am wrong, then I am wrong

de727ups

"But I believe that the strengths of "professional flight training" at any given school out way the strengths of FBO training."

I can promise you that some FBO's offer training superior to ATP, and produce a superior final product than ATP does. That route many not get you to a regional as fast as ATP, though.

Other FBO's are lacking. It's not hard to tell the difference if you check out the operation and experience of the CFI's.

ATP is a system designed to get a person his ratings at min costs and hired at a regional at min time. It works, nothing wrong with that. But to say ATP is superior to FBO's, provides "professional" training that you can't get at an FBO, or produces a better pilot than an FBO, is BS.

LeoSV

There is a big difference between a 22 year old that is clearly and admittingly just "building time" and using your time and funds to do so, and what you are talking about. I'm assuming you're referring to any old CFI at any old flight school that just happens to be younger than you. I'm paying too much money to just learn how to pass a checkride. If you enjoy being treated like that by a 22 year old with you being 37 and paying 45k, so be it. But I do not. I want a CFI that enjoys his/her job and makes it fun and educational for me. Learning to fly is half the fun of flying.

avanti

Another question for folks who have gone or who are going to ATP-- I am female (that's not the question yet =) and I wonder if I will even have roommates in the ATP housing or if I will be all alone. What percentage of students are girls at any one time????? Thanks.

ctd57

You all knew I would respond to these comments.

LeoSV, first of all, age has nothing to do with it. Experience plays a big part in aviation, no matter where you are. I guarantee, that whenever you get to an airline, at your age you will probably fly with a captain at the regionals who is younger than you. Does that make a difference, no, not in my opinion, my instructor was younger than me, but I didn't know how to fly a Seminole, and he did. And don't take one idiot instructor in JAX to stereotype all of ATPs instructors. You say that your instructor wouldn't let you fully handle the controls during the landings, he probably noticed something that you weren't doing, you just got your private right? He might be a nervous instructor. Believe me, there are plenty of times that I have rode the controls all the way in on my students, it is not for anything personal, but for our safety and yours. He/she may have seen something that they did not like. Not all pilots make good instructors. I don't like most of the guys at that location anyway. The further you get away from there, the better. As for the guys in the ATP office, they may be annoyed with the office work there, I was one of those guys once, and every job has its good days and its bad, maybe you just caught them on a bad day. Hey, I am 27, I am here building time to become a pilot somewhere else, but I am not "personally" using your time and money. You probably aren't seeing the whole picture with at that SIM. Sometimes it gets frustrating when you go over and over the same thing, and your student keeps on screwing up. You are not an instructor, so you have no idea what I am talking about, but I have never taken it out on my student, some guys just can't keep their cool in certain situations. And if all you are taught how to do is pass a checkride, than why do some many succeed at regional airline training and pass with flying colors?

C152driver, well that is one exception. The guys who come to ATP strickly for CFI school have minimal time. I can't say anything for those guys. As for career pilot students, they leave ATP with around 130-140 hours. I would at least fly with the guy first though before I made the decision to change instructors.

444KA, same comment as above, if they came to CFI school and that was it, then they are definately not as experienced as a career pilot. And what is wrong with time building, like I have said before, most CFI's are instructing inorder to build time to fly somewhere else. But at the same time, they need to give quality instruction while doing that. Just look at all of the posts on this website, how many CFI's do you see talking about regional flying, alot. And you know nothing about ATP instructors except for the few that you ran into at that flight school. The 2 people that you met don't set the standard that ATP instructors have. And if they were career pilots, they are probably instructing somewhere else because they couldn't pass the checkride with the chief pilot. It isn't like ATP hires you just because you completed their program.

de727ups, I take some of my comments back. I don't know about every FBO in the country, I think that quality of pilot also comes with that persons natural ability to do the job correctly, and those people will shine no matter what school they attend. The one thing that no FBO can compete with though is the fleet of aircraft that ATP maintains. If I have a problem with either of my planes at my location, all I have to do is make a phone call, and I have a plane within that day or the next. I don't have to wait on some part to be shipped in or for local maintenance to have an opening to get my plane in the shop. You're right, ATP is designed for you to get your ratings, and move on with your aviation career, but not what all I said is BS

de727ups

"And if they were career pilots, they are probably instructing somewhere else because they couldn't pass the checkride with the chief pilot"

Yeah right.....that's not what I've been hearing.

The ATP guy I know did his IFR through CFIME with ATP and would rather work at a nice FBO. He's at Galvin's at BFI. They usually don't hire off the street (especially from ATP, according to his interviewer) but he had someone pulling for him and had good timing. $1000/mo is pretty low pay. No need to get defensive. I know guys are just doing it for the multi time to get on with the regionals.

ATP is a pilot mill. Not everyone is interested in instructing in a place like that just to get on at a regional ASAP.

Some places have higher standards than hiring guys who went from zero time to CFI in three months. It can be done but it doesn't sound like a very good idea to me.

That ATP koolaid must be really good....

stillageek

I looked for a flight school for the better part of a year. Where would one go that is not a pilot mill? I have a professional job, 29, house, wife....good life. I want to move on to be a pilot. I live in the Dallas area and don't want to quit my job and rush through pilot training. I looked at several FBO's around here (there are quite a few airports in the DFW area). All quoted the 40 hour price for the PPL. When I asked what most students do I got everything from "you will get it in 40 hours" to "maybe a little more." Really vauge. I looked at DCA....but that would involve quitting work and moving to Florida. So I looked at US Flight Academy in Denton, Skymates in Arlington and ATP in Arlington. These were more than FBO's, had several aircraft including multiengines and with the exception of US Flight Academy, had clear prices posted. I chose ATP only because I felt more comfortable with their program versus Skymates. I did like the planes Skymates uses for PPL more than ATP....but that's about it. I get so tired of hearing "pilot mill" without backing it up or explaining it. I am a bit leary of the 90 day programs. The company I work for gives people 6 months to learn one software program (we write it....very customized). I don't know how one could really learn everything about flying (beyond the PPL) in 90 days. I guess they do. For me I am doing self paced. I finished the PPL in 3 months flying 4 days a week. Mostly evenings except for Sundays which I did mornings. I start the career program at the end of the month. I should be done in 6-7 months. I like taking my time and really reading and taking in what I am doing. Hmm....this is one of those damn long post I hate reading...bleh.