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Old 03-04-2012, 06:25 AM   #11  
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It might have made my cause sound better if I fillled y'all in on a little back ground info about my training.

I have already completed all of my solo requirements for my PPL and actually have about 20hrs solo already. I had an FAA medical situation that put me on hold for a very long time and just now got back to flying. All of my old instruction was with a different CFI and my new(er) one has already given me probably 30 hours of dual instruction. A lot of that is just me paying him so I could go fly with no medical of SPC.

Anyways, I have passed the written test and all we have left is for him to endorse my new SPC and medical certificate. He wants to fly with me 2 weekends in a row and practice strictly for the check ride then he will sign me off and I'll take my checkride. In all honesty I should have my PPL within the month unless something unforseen happens.

So with that being said, of course I would let him know when I was going to fly first. That just seems like common courtsey. To be honest though, and I know I might get some **** for this, if he said no and the weather was really nice I might just do it anyways and not tell him ONLY if he couldn't be held liable for my actions. I would never knowingly put someone on the line like that.

So, new question: If the only restrictions he gives me are weather related and I fly without telling him or after he said no; could he be held liable for my actions?
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:25 AM   #12  
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So with that being said, of course I would let him know when I was going to fly first. That just seems like common courtsey. To be honest though, and I know I might get some **** for this, if he said no and the weather was really nice I might just do it anyways and not tell him ONLY if he couldn't be held liable for my actions. I would never knowingly put someone on the line like that.

So, new question: If the only restrictions he gives me are weather related and I fly without telling him or after he said no; could he be held liable for my actions?
Yes, you'll catch **** for ^^^ that. You don't have a private pilot certificate, and as a student pilot, you are flying on your instructor's ticket. I had a student do that to me a few years ago, I found out that he had flown without telling me in marginal weather, and when I asked him about it, he responded with "You don't have to babysit me, I know how to fly". I put big Xs on his logbook where my endorsements were, put VOID next to the X and told him to find another instructor.

Yes, a CFI is liable for your actions while you have his solo endorsement. Weather is a limitation. Don't ruin your professional relationship with instructor by doing something like this. It'll make you look like a douche. As a pilot, you don't go around the rules when it's convenient, you follow them. In this case, the CFI made the rules. As I said before, if you don't like his rules - find another CFI.

As a CFI, if I can't trust my students to do something as basic as telling me when they are up in the air, I am not going to have them flying around with my endorsement. It is part of bad "aeronautical decision making". What are you going to do when you "don't tell your instructor that you're flying" and then have a runway incursion?!

P.s. if you have 20 hours of solo already to include 5 hours local SOLO + 5 hours SOLO cross-country, then you don't need any more solo time. Focus on the checkride prep.
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:59 AM   #13  
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Ok, well I dont want you under the impression that my CFI has put any restrictions on me because he hasn't. Also, he wouldn't tell me I couldn't fly if the weather was nice. I am asking purely hypothetical questions to find out what I can and cant do... legally. I will always tell him before I fly. He is my friend also, not only my CFI. I have known him a very long time.

I am asking purely to find out, HYPOTHETICALLY if I did do something like that, could my instructor loose his liscence. If I had his permission and messed up, could he then? Like I said before.. I would never put my instructor in jeopardy. I could care less about looking like a douche.

It seems like it would be hard to find an instructor to let you solo at all if he were to be held liable if you crashed at any point even during a supervised solo.

I dont need more solo time? I need to fly as much as possible. I need to get my commercial ASAP. I work for an agricultural flying service (going on 4 years) and my boss has promised me a flying job after i get my ticket.

All of this is stemming from the burning desire Ive had to fly my 120 by myself this entire year I've owned it while I was waiting on my medical. Ive been tempted to go take her up when no one is around but have abstained from such behaivior. It's going to be a lot harder to do that after he endorses me to solo. Then it will be legal and my insurance will cover me by myself.
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:14 PM   #14  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 120PC View Post
Ok, well I dont want you under the impression that my CFI has put any restrictions on me because he hasn't. Also, he wouldn't tell me I couldn't fly if the weather was nice. I am asking purely hypothetical questions to find out what I can and cant do... legally. I will always tell him before I fly. He is my friend also, not only my CFI. I have known him a very long time.
Check the back of your logbook. Your instructor must have put limitations with visibility, ceilings, crosswind component, headwind component, etc. These are your restrictions, and legally, you have to operate under the limitations that the CFI has given you in this endorsement. If your limitations state 5000 foot ceilings, then you can't legally go solo with 4500 Broken.

The student that I mentioned who went flying solo without telling me, he was perfectly legal to start and finish the flight, however it's not what we had talked about... so he lost his privileges to fly solo. There are enough things that can go wrong on a solo flight, a CFI doesn't want anyone with "hazardous attitudes" flying solo on their ticket.

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I am asking purely to find out, HYPOTHETICALLY if I did do something like that, could my instructor loose his liscence. If I had his permission and messed up, could he then? Like I said before.. I would never put my instructor in jeopardy. I could care less about looking like a douche.
IF you violate a regulation or operate in an unsafe manner on a SOLO flight that it causes an incident or accident, then the FAA would get involved. At that point, it depends on how serious the issue is. An incident could raise a NEW issue that may not have anything to do with your incident. For example, if you run off the side of the runway during a crosswind, and the FAA sees that you never got any logged ground instruction in your logbook, the FAA might then do "remedial training" with the instructor. Worst case scenario, the instructor could get a 709 ride. You can read about 709 rides here - The 709 Ride

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It seems like it would be hard to find an instructor to let you solo at all if he were to be held liable if you crashed at any point even during a supervised solo.
Not really, I've got many students from other instructors. I've gone up for 2 flights, given them a pre-solo written test and then signed them off to solo. It depends on how well you have been trained. Instructors know that we are liable when students are flying around with our endorsements, it's part of the responsibility of being a flight instructor. Experienced instructors will be more comfortable taking on someone else's student compared to fresh new CFIs.

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I dont need more solo time? I need to fly as much as possible. I need to get my commercial ASAP. I work for an agricultural flying service (going on 4 years) and my boss has promised me a flying job after i get my ticket.
That is correct, you don't NEED additional solo time. You met the 10 hours solo requirement (assuming you have met them since you have 20 hours of solo time) which is required as per 14 CFR Part 61. At this point, it is for your CFI to decide if he wants you to fly solo. Yes, any additional solo time gets counted towards your total time, but you'd be better off getting some dual training instead of flying local solo flights. You might think "but I get so much experience when I'm flying solo". That is correct, however, to your CFI, it only means experience at the risk of something happening on the flight where the CFI is responsible. Your instructor may not want the additional liability, since you already have your 10 hours of solo time. If you really want to build experience, go fly after you get your Private Pilot certificate where you are the PIC of the flight, without any "safety umbrella" or "restrictions" from your CFI. If you plan to work on an instrument rating after your Private, find a CFII to provide you with some much needed "hood time".

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All of this is stemming from the burning desire Ive had to fly my 120 by myself this entire year I've owned it while I was waiting on my medical. Ive been tempted to go take her up when no one is around but have abstained from such behaivior. It's going to be a lot harder to do that after he endorses me to solo. Then it will be legal and my insurance will cover me by myself.
Honestly, this is a conversation between you and your CFI. Yes, you're covered legally and by your insurance, but the last thing any CFI wants is to have one of his students involved in an incident/accident while with his solo endorsement. If your CFI feels comfortable to let you keep flying solo ON HIS TICKET, having met your minimum solo time requirements as per Part 61, then keep flying solo and have fun. If he doesn't feel comfortable, then you don't fly solo. It's as simple as that. It's your CFI's signature in your logbook allowing you to solo, so you do what he tells you to do. Since your instructor is also your friend, give him a link to this thread and ask for his feedback.

Last edited by Gajre539; 03-04-2012 at 01:31 PM. Reason: Added link
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:59 PM   #15  
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Thanks for all the feedback here I really appreciate it.

He will be endorsing my logbook this weekend, so no he has not imposed any restrictions on me flying solo as of yet. He is under the impression that legally he has to be at the airport and I did not think that was true. However, he might put that restriction on me anyways but it isn't anything we have talked about yet. I am hoping he doesent.

Your saying I dont need aditional solo time for my PPL. That is true. I really just want to fly my plane the week after he endorses me and the few weeks before my checkride. I'm sure you probably dont know what it is like to own an airplane that you cant fly. It has been driving me crazy for the past year.

After this weekend we will see how he feels about me flying solo when he is not at the airport. I am hoping he will be sympathetic because he did just up and move in the middle of my training literally the week before I got my medical. I'd love to show him this thread but there is that little part where I said that I might fly if he says I cant and I'm not sure I want him to read that!
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:24 PM   #16  
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. I'd love to show him this thread but there is that little part where I said that I might fly if he says I cant and I'm not sure I want him to read that!
Welcome to foot-in-mouthville. Everyone talks tough on the Internet anyways, just admit you made a mistake saying that. Biggest thing now that I would want to see is you making good sound judgements on your own skills
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Old 03-04-2012, 03:35 PM   #17  
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Just remember every one should learn something on every flight, no matter how many hours they have. There are just too many variables not to. Familiarity and Complacency are killers.

Fly safely.
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Old 03-04-2012, 06:18 PM   #18  
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Welcome to foot-in-mouthville. Everyone talks tough on the Internet anyways, just admit you made a mistake saying that. Biggest thing now that I would want to see is you making good sound judgements on your own skills

You are right. I should not have said that!

I must admit I am playing a little bit of the devils advocate here. I am not so fast to do things that will make me look bad in real life! HA
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Old 03-05-2012, 08:11 AM   #19  
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As instructors we need to guard against the "perpetual student", that student who does not really care enough about their license to put forth the effort to get done with it but instead enjoys being able to fly solo every now and then for fun. The FARs do not prevent this and we have to watch for it as instructors. Making it worse is how hard it is to decide sometimes exactly who is serious and who is shining us on for the fun of flying without a license. I just had to kick someone out who had numerous 90 day renewals yet never made any progress and hardly scheduled any training flights. You have to ask them every flight what they worked on and how they are doing. There also needs to be a minimum flight frequency for progress to be ongoing. At least one flight a week is the minimum I use.
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