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Old 04-18-2012, 10:52 PM   #11  
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Was looking into ATP TTN to do some flying. Anyone have any experience at that specific location?
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Old 04-19-2012, 01:55 AM   #12  
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Go with the local school. I am sure the owner will give you some deal on this. I know I would if someone showed up with 110 hrs of multi time cash
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:58 PM   #13  
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Anyone go to ATP Sacramento and can share their experience? I was thinking about doing the 4 day multi, but it's very pricey. The local FBO I fly at offers a Seneca and Seminole at 225 wet.
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Old 04-24-2012, 05:26 AM   #14  
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then obviously go with the local... thats a good price.
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Old 04-24-2012, 11:05 PM   #15  
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Originally Posted by Ray Blaszak View Post
For example, if you are struggling on approach plates you need to ask your instructor for a ground school.
The instructor you get may or may not be willing to do ground. I wouldn't count on it, some of mine did, some weren't really willing to. They don't get paid for ground, so don't expect a lot of ground.
Also, you mentioned not being forced to take a checkride. I can't tell you how many checkrides I was sent into kicking and screaming. Somehow I managed to make it through them, so I guess I wasn't always right, but it wasn't pretty at times during the orals/flights. Some of the things about ATP are ridiculous... Like near the end of the program, you get 5.0 multi for your commercial multi, 4.0 for initial CFI in the twin, and then 2.0 or 3.0 for instrument instructor (don't quote me). It's really brutal, you have no time to make mistakes in the airplane, and it's $400-475/hr for more Seminole time. All in all I liked my ATP experience but it was one of the hardest things I've ever done. Don't think getting all your ratings that fast is going to be easy.
A local flight school just can't compete in my opinion - are they really gonna have a CFI that can work with you 4 hours a day, and be able to guarantee that there will be a plane available, and that it'll work? If something breaks before your checkride, can they get another plane there fast? Local training is great and to each their own, but I wouldn't try and do a 90 day fast track style program at a small flight school. It's just not possible, accept that it's going to take longer.
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:13 PM   #16  
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Anyone go to ATP Sacramento and can share their experience? I was thinking about doing the 4 day multi, but it's very pricey. The local FBO I fly at offers a Seneca and Seminole at 225 wet.
My local FBO rents their Seminole for 265 dry, FWIW.
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Old 04-25-2012, 09:23 PM   #17  
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All in all I liked my ATP experience but it was one of the hardest things I've ever done..
Can you elaborate on the aspects of your training that left you with a positive experience? What location did you attend?
Your comments on the lack of ground school is a little concerning, however I have already completed my private and instrument so I should somewhat know what am doing. I did get an extra flight in before both check rides though, and you say you have to pay extra for that huh?
One question I have is if I elect to do the self-paced program, do I get the same availability of planes and CFIís?
Still pretty much decided on giving it a go if the numbers are right. The worst day flying was better than work today.

Dust
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:45 AM   #18  
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There is no difference at ATP in regards to the program except for price. If you look at the website you will see the self paced program is actually quite a bit more and you have to dedicate I think a minimum of ten days a month. I have been talking to some instructor's and they say lack of motivation on the student's part is the main reason why most students aren't happy or don't succeed. One instructor told me he literally had to force some students to read the material. I know when I was visiting JAX (CRG) that the instructors said all the students were complaining about not getting a day off and sometimes they had to force them to fly on Sunday to keep the schedule up to date. Why would you sign up for something like the ACPP than? I am speaking that a CRG both chief's force their instructor's to give ground school's when needed and when the instructor can't do it than the Chief's will do it for themselves. I never said it was going to be easy that's why 1.) I have done all my knowledge test prior to starting 2.) I have actually read the supplement front to back multiple times and have done the oral review 3.) have already came up with several ground schools and questions I already have. It's like any school in the military if you stay motivated and give it your all you'll succeed. If you lack motivation and don't want to put forth 100% effort all the time than ATP may not be for you. I know me personally need a structured program that will allow me to get my ratings fast. I don't care what they say no one can force me to take a checkride and I know personally that at JAX the instructors will not endorse a student until they know they are 100 percent ready. Again I am speaking for one location. With 26 locations theirs no way the owner and the chief pilot could possibly visit every location every day or week for that matter. I know they frequent JAX all the time since they are based out of there and that's the main reason why I chose that location in addition to actually being from Jax
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:49 PM   #19  
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There is no difference at ATP in regards to the program except for price. If you look at the website you will see the self paced program is actually quite a bit more and you have to dedicate I think a minimum of ten days a month. I have been talking to some instructor's and they say lack of motivation on the student's part is the main reason why most students aren't happy or don't succeed. One instructor told me he literally had to force some students to read the material. I know when I was visiting JAX (CRG) that the instructors said all the students were complaining about not getting a day off and sometimes they had to force them to fly on Sunday to keep the schedule up to date. Why would you sign up for something like the ACPP than? I am speaking that a CRG both chief's force their instructor's to give ground school's when needed and when the instructor can't do it than the Chief's will do it for themselves. I never said it was going to be easy that's why 1.) I have done all my knowledge test prior to starting 2.) I have actually read the supplement front to back multiple times and have done the oral review 3.) have already came up with several ground schools and questions I already have. It's like any school in the military if you stay motivated and give it your all you'll succeed. If you lack motivation and don't want to put forth 100% effort all the time than ATP may not be for you. I know me personally need a structured program that will allow me to get my ratings fast. I don't care what they say no one can force me to take a checkride and I know personally that at JAX the instructors will not endorse a student until they know they are 100 percent ready. Again I am speaking for one location. With 26 locations theirs no way the owner and the chief pilot could possibly visit every location every day or week for that matter. I know they frequent JAX all the time since they are based out of there and that's the main reason why I chose that location in addition to actually being from Jax
Ray - you will see. Just wait, you will see. Maybe things are different in JAX, but the instructors elsewhere do not give a ****, they will sign you off ready or not, and the ground really varies based on instructor. Frankly, you don't really need ground with the video program they have on the Ipad and the airplane flying handbook/instrument flying handbook/PHAK, read all of that and you will be fine. What do you need an instructor to hold your hand for? But, if you have a question, they are usually happy to answer it.

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Can you elaborate on the aspects of your training that left you with a positive experience? What location did you attend?
Your comments on the lack of ground school is a little concerning, however I have already completed my private and instrument so I should somewhat know what am doing. I did get an extra flight in before both check rides though, and you say you have to pay extra for that huh?
One question I have is if I elect to do the self-paced program, do I get the same availability of planes and CFI’s?
Still pretty much decided on giving it a go if the numbers are right. The worst day flying was better than work today.

Dust
Yes, you will need to pay extra for any extra flying, and the whole ATP program is set up with basically the absolute minimum amount of flying. Is it impossible? Nah, I only ended up buying a few extra hours, and I probably would have been okay even if I hadn't. But you have to take into account how little time you get, and really memorize and chair fly everything before you get in the plane so you don't waste any time. I knew only one self paced student, he ended up quitting his job so he could convert to full time because the self paced was going too slow and wasn't working out well.

Do I recommend the program? absolutely.. the positive aspects was one of my instructors who was just an awesome guy and really invested in your success, he would do whatever he could to help you and was a very smart guy (and he did do a lot of ground in the beginning). there was always a plane available (although the 172s are pretty beat to hell). they didn't get me done on time, my program ended up taking 5 months instead of 3, but some of that was due to the holidays and just being at a small location that didn't have enough instructors and then times not lining up with CFI school, so yeah. ATP gets you done, and you spend most of your time in the seminole getting valuable multi.
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Old 04-29-2012, 07:49 AM   #20  
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I am not speaking for the rest of the system. I know John (the CP) and the owner are in there at least once a week snooping around. Not to mention with the standardization being done in JAX the instructors feet are always being held to the fire to do things properly. I don't need an instructor to hold my hand but if there is material I don't understand I certainly expect them to answer it. I know out of the 6-10 instructors they have there now most of them have been there almost two years and I even over heard them have a conversation with the CP (for the location) about a guy's checkride. They said there is no way they will sign him off because he wasn't ready. The CP for JAX described it perfectly. "You will see when you go to other locations just how bad some of the instructors are. I guess it's like a teenager who just so happens to get away from mom and dad. When they aren't watching there is no telling what they will do." I was skeptical of ATP at first but when I toured JAX the CP had no problem showing me whatever I wanted to see. Luckily, if I need extra time they said I could take some time away from my XC since I already have 200 hours. With having so many locations I am sure that there are really good, good, bad, and really bad locations. I am sure that with one or two instructors in Chicago they can probably get away with whatever they want and have lots of pressure to get students through. I know at JAX where the have 10-12 instructors they don't have as much pressure as the instructors only have one-two students at a time.
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