Spongebob

Uh, no. It gets logged as special crew time, which is NOT pilot time. However, "A" time is PIC no matter where you are because you signed for the plane. Like a long-haul Captain who has a relief Captain on board.

Spongebob

AVIVIII

I would just like to remind everyone in this thread, whether you "know a guy who..." or "has a freind that...," to brush up on your regs and read 61.59 again or for the first time.

ToiletDuck

I was flying the Merlin at 21k feet and the guy next to me who's been teaching/harassing me nonstop in there said, "Are we on an IFR flight plan?" I said yes, he said "Then log it IFR". But it was a beautiful day. I didn't log it because it seemed wrong but he's been flying for about 50yrs and has like 30k hrs. Right or wrong?

iflyjets4food

Wrong. Reference 14 CFR 61.51(g). Keep in mind that the guy with 30k hours probably doesn't have to keep his logbook in order for any ratings and perhaps any job in the future. He may have no incentive to log flights according to the regulations. You do. Follow the guidance you are provided by the folks who can take your certificates from you, i.e. FAA.

HotMamaPilot

thanks for that insight...i'll get right to it

Ottopilot

Sure he can log it IFR all day, but he can't log it IMC. There is a difference.
Rules VS. Conditions

ToiletDuck

That's the point. In order to get the same answer from any two FSDO's takes a miracle. Asking them what constitutes a "device representative of a pressurized aircraft" got 5 different answers. However on this point the FAR says A person may log instrument time only for flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions.

So what count's as actual instrument conditions? Flying by sole reference to instruments where you can't navigate by the ground doesn't count even though you can see 50+ miles? Pitch black where you are only on instruments? between cloud layers? There is a lot of gray area. But like I said I didn't think that counted either. Just because you are on an IFR required flight plan in Class A doesn't allow you log it actual.

calcapt

When I was learning to fly I logged 800 hours for every 1 hour of flight time. I figured the drive to the airport and time spent studying ought to be worth something. In fact I logged so many hours that I actually had my interview at CAL before I returned from my first solo flight. In a competitive society, you gotta do what it takes to get the job. Thank God 737s don't have constant speed props as I never got that far in the GA world.

Seriously guys, be careful with accepting the fact that it is OK to fudge flight times - It's NOT. If you are ever discovered or there is any question about your ability vs what is in your logbook, you will be shown the door. Airline recruiters are very good at finding discrepancies and discovering mistruths. Then there is the issue of moral character!

Texandrvr

How is that keeping up with military? SOME airlines give us a credit of .2 or .3 per sortie because we log takeoff to landing, not hobbs. This isn't something we can put straight in our logbook.

hatetobreakit2u

sure there really is no benefit to lying and i dont lie(most regionals dont list a minimum actual time requirement), but when it may come into play are the people moving onto fractional jobs that want 300 hours instrument, or they throw your resume in the trash, even though they meet every other requirement.

and by one standard they may have 290 instrument, if you count moonless nights they may have 310. either or im sure they fly perfect in the simulator .
but 20 hours of "clouds actual" may take 6 months out in the dessert, and that guy may want to be gettin on to a better job a little sooner than 6 months.


im not condoning lying, thats why i aksed the opinion on this(and theres still no correct answer), but surely you can see certain scenarios require different ways of looking at things (FYI this is not my scenario either)

in some cases concervative is not the best option