Emirates - how is it?
04-13-2020, 12:20 PM
#22
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Joined APC: Nov 2019
Posts: 39
Originally Posted by biigD
Sounds to me like your mind is already made up Dylan. Go for it!
04-13-2020, 12:54 PM
#23
2 days off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: Embraer Systems Analyst
Posts: 1,853
Originally Posted by DylanHK
Thanks, just looking for any EK pilots that can weigh in. I’ve seen so many negative things about the actual job yet people still sustain long careers there.
04-13-2020, 01:53 PM
#24
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Joined APC: Jun 2016
Position: A350 CA
Posts: 295
People usually return to the USA for several reasons. Some get homesick, some get divorced, some cant adjust to living in the Gulf, others only wanted to go overseas for a short period of time...Many reasons but there are those who will retire from here like myself. A lot of misinformation on APC regarding the reasons. Yes there are those that are not a good match for this lifestyle but there's many golden opportunities for those who like it, adjust and stay. Where else in the World can you become a B787/777/A350/A380 Captain in less than 6 years? Its not all roses but its definately not what some people here make it out to be. As far as compensation, I'd like to compare my NET salary with a 30+ year Reserve Delta A350 Captain and lets see the differences. I became a WB Captain at the 5 year point verses someone at a US legacy carrier doing the same job took them 30. Im in my early 40's and have been a WB Captain for 8 out of my 13 years here. When hiring starts again years from now, apply, interview, get the job and then decide for yourself. You can always come back to the USA if you dont like it. On the other hand, you may love the lifestyle and never leave. One thing is certain, you will retire very wealthy from here if you dont blow all your cash on unnecessary things as is the case anywhere.
04-13-2020, 02:24 PM
#25
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Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,177
Originally Posted by DylanHK
I’ve definitely considered them, my problem is is that they fly pretty much ONLY at night, and fly aircraft (apart from UPS’ 747) that I’d rather not fly. I’d rather fly a 777 or A380 across the world during the day than a 75/767 across the world but only during the night, if you get what I mean.
GF
04-13-2020, 03:03 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: tri current
Posts: 1,485
Originally Posted by DylanHK
If people were truly worked like slaves there (e.g. long hours and little pay to compensate) no one would work for Emirates. It’s that simple. Plenty of pilots there are expats that can easily leave for their own country without being pressured by the UAE. Unless you work for them, I’m betting you got that information from pprune.org
As far as 24-hour layovers are concerned, that’s not true. Plenty of EK pilots have mentioned elsewhere that they’re around 48 hrs usually. Plus, you’re going to visit the locations more than once so that “48 hours” isn’t all you’re experiencing.
As far as 24-hour layovers are concerned, that’s not true. Plenty of EK pilots have mentioned elsewhere that they’re around 48 hrs usually. Plus, you’re going to visit the locations more than once so that “48 hours” isn’t all you’re experiencing.
I worked for Emirates for 11 years Dylan. I left at the end of 2013 to come back to a job in the USA. I could have stayed a few more years, but I was very well insulated in the training department and did not have to put up with the crap flying that normal line pilots have.
There are literally dozens of threads on Emirates here on APC, some as old as 2005. Emirates is a far different airline today than when I joined. When I joined the normal schedule on a B777 was to work 12-14 days/month. Lots of time to play golf or hang out with friends and family. The A330 fleet had the worst schedules back then with numerous fatiguing sub-Continent night turns. Those are now on the B777 for the most part. I did a total of about 7 in 11 years with the airline, but again I was very well insulated in the training department. Most guys were doing 3/month minimum.
Dubai was also a much more laid back place in 2003 than it is today. It was far more affordable and had far less traffic.
Many of the benefits have been chipped away at over the years. When I joined 42 days of vacation with credit hours for those days as well as training days was the norm. You could easily take 21-28 vacation days off and place days off on either side of them. I had 30 days off in a row when my son was born in 2005 using just 21 days of vacation. Later it became impossible to take more than 14 days of vacation and the credit had disappeared so if you took them all in one month you still got to fly a full schedule crammed into the remaining 16 days. No credit for training now either, so that full 16-18 day work schedule gets 3 days added every six months for your training to bring it up to 19-21 work days. Plus other odd days of training here and there.
Healthcare was okay when I joined, but now I hear it is terrible. There is now a 5% Value Added Tax (VAT). So many more areas where there have been large decreases that affect QOL. Housing is probably one of the biggest of those. Not sure how the school allowance has kept up with cost, but that is another to look at closely.
When I joined it was a 3 year $36,000 bond. I believe it is 5 years and a much higher dollar amount now. They also started bonding for upgrade as well. Not sure what upgrade times will be if/when they start hiring again, but probably going to be much longer than normal. I upgraded in one year right when they started hiring Direct Entry Captains. Many guys were getting an accelerated 18 month upgrade and the rest were at three years. Those days are long gone.
Some of my friends are still there, but one very telling thing is how the fatigue has adversely affected their health. I was back there on a layover a few years ago and had dinner with three friends. All three has lost their medicals for various reasons and were still there as sim instructors. One of them was a botched operation at a local hospital (almost killed him), the other two could probably be attributed to fatigue related issues, at least in part. A few guys have literally dropped dead, one on a JFK layover. Cumulative fatigue does kill.
Many many more of my friends and acquaintances have moved on to other positions. The Americans all came back to the USA or retired. Many Europeans have gone back to LCC jobs in their home countries. Some do stay for various reasons, usually it is because their countries have terrible options for returning ( Zimbabwe, South Africa, etc). Others just counting the days until they retire.
Emirates was a great option post 9-11 when I joined and in the post 2008 economic meltdown when many more joined. It is no longer a great option, but it may become an option in the post pandemic world. Just realize it is a job that is going to work you to the bone while only giving you the minimum possible compensation that management thinks they can get away with.
As for the other guy posting about Qatar being better, Doha is a ****hole compared to Dubai. Qatar management fires guys at the drop of a hat. Not that EK doesn't let people go, but at least it is a more transparent process. A very good friend left EK and came to where I was working. He left there and went to Qatar as a DEC on the B777. He liked the flying, but had that terrible nagging feeling of being under the gun on every flight. Instead of being happy with a well managed flight like at Emirates, he stated that is was more of a relief that he wouldn't be getting into trouble or terminated for having made a mistake. He also felt completely alone in Doha with nothing to do. He left Qatar after just a year there.
Of course everyone's mileage will vary with these jobs.
04-13-2020, 03:18 PM
#28
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Joined APC: Nov 2019
Posts: 39
Originally Posted by Typhoonpilot
I worked for Emirates for 11 years Dylan. I left at the end of 2013 to come back to a job in the USA. I could have stayed a few more years, but I was very well insulated in the training department and did not have to put up with the crap flying that normal line pilots have.
There are literally dozens of threads on Emirates here on APC, some as old as 2005. Emirates is a far different airline today than when I joined. When I joined the normal schedule on a B777 was to work 12-14 days/month. Lots of time to play golf or hang out with friends and family. The A330 fleet had the worst schedules back then with numerous fatiguing sub-Continent night turns. Those are now on the B777 for the most part. I did a total of about 7 in 11 years with the airline, but again I was very well insulated in the training department. Most guys were doing 3/month minimum.
Dubai was also a much more laid back place in 2003 than it is today. It was far more affordable and had far less traffic.
Many of the benefits have been chipped away at over the years. When I joined 42 days of vacation with credit hours for those days as well as training days was the norm. You could easily take 21-28 vacation days off and place days off on either side of them. I had 30 days off in a row when my son was born in 2005 using just 21 days of vacation. Later it became impossible to take more than 14 days of vacation and the credit had disappeared so if you took them all in one month you still got to fly a full schedule crammed into the remaining 16 days. No credit for training now either, so that full 16-18 day work schedule gets 3 days added every six months for your training to bring it up to 19-21 work days. Plus other odd days of training here and there.
Healthcare was okay when I joined, but now I hear it is terrible. There is now a 5% Value Added Tax (VAT). So many more areas where there have been large decreases that affect QOL. Housing is probably one of the biggest of those. Not sure how the school allowance has kept up with cost, but that is another to look at closely.
When I joined it was a 3 year $36,000 bond. I believe it is 5 years and a much higher dollar amount now. They also started bonding for upgrade as well. Not sure what upgrade times will be if/when they start hiring again, but probably going to be much longer than normal. I upgraded in one year right when they started hiring Direct Entry Captains. Many guys were getting an accelerated 18 month upgrade and the rest were at three years. Those days are long gone.
Some of my friends are still there, but one very telling thing is how the fatigue has adversely affected their health. I was back there on a layover a few years ago and had dinner with three friends. All three has lost their medicals for various reasons and were still there as sim instructors. One of them was a botched operation at a local hospital (almost killed him), the other two could probably be attributed to fatigue related issues, at least in part. A few guys have literally dropped dead, one on a JFK layover. Cumulative fatigue does kill.
Many many more of my friends and acquaintances have moved on to other positions. The Americans all came back to the USA or retired. Many Europeans have gone back to LCC jobs in their home countries. Some do stay for various reasons, usually it is because their countries have terrible options for returning ( Zimbabwe, South Africa, etc). Others just counting the days until they retire.
Emirates was a great option post 9-11 when I joined and in the post 2008 economic meltdown when many more joined. It is no longer a great option, but it may become an option in the post pandemic world. Just realize it is a job that is going to work you to the bone while only giving you the minimum possible compensation that management thinks they can get away with.
As for the other guy posting about Qatar being better, Doha is a ****hole compared to Dubai. Qatar management fires guys at the drop of a hat. Not that EK doesn't let people go, but at least it is a more transparent process. A very good friend left EK and came to where I was working. He left there and went to Qatar as a DEC on the B777. He liked the flying, but had that terrible nagging feeling of being under the gun on every flight. Instead of being happy with a well managed flight like at Emirates, he stated that is was more of a relief that he wouldn't be getting into trouble or terminated for having made a mistake. He also felt completely alone in Doha with nothing to do. He left Qatar after just a year there.
Of course everyone's mileage will vary with these jobs.
There are literally dozens of threads on Emirates here on APC, some as old as 2005. Emirates is a far different airline today than when I joined. When I joined the normal schedule on a B777 was to work 12-14 days/month. Lots of time to play golf or hang out with friends and family. The A330 fleet had the worst schedules back then with numerous fatiguing sub-Continent night turns. Those are now on the B777 for the most part. I did a total of about 7 in 11 years with the airline, but again I was very well insulated in the training department. Most guys were doing 3/month minimum.
Dubai was also a much more laid back place in 2003 than it is today. It was far more affordable and had far less traffic.
Many of the benefits have been chipped away at over the years. When I joined 42 days of vacation with credit hours for those days as well as training days was the norm. You could easily take 21-28 vacation days off and place days off on either side of them. I had 30 days off in a row when my son was born in 2005 using just 21 days of vacation. Later it became impossible to take more than 14 days of vacation and the credit had disappeared so if you took them all in one month you still got to fly a full schedule crammed into the remaining 16 days. No credit for training now either, so that full 16-18 day work schedule gets 3 days added every six months for your training to bring it up to 19-21 work days. Plus other odd days of training here and there.
Healthcare was okay when I joined, but now I hear it is terrible. There is now a 5% Value Added Tax (VAT). So many more areas where there have been large decreases that affect QOL. Housing is probably one of the biggest of those. Not sure how the school allowance has kept up with cost, but that is another to look at closely.
When I joined it was a 3 year $36,000 bond. I believe it is 5 years and a much higher dollar amount now. They also started bonding for upgrade as well. Not sure what upgrade times will be if/when they start hiring again, but probably going to be much longer than normal. I upgraded in one year right when they started hiring Direct Entry Captains. Many guys were getting an accelerated 18 month upgrade and the rest were at three years. Those days are long gone.
Some of my friends are still there, but one very telling thing is how the fatigue has adversely affected their health. I was back there on a layover a few years ago and had dinner with three friends. All three has lost their medicals for various reasons and were still there as sim instructors. One of them was a botched operation at a local hospital (almost killed him), the other two could probably be attributed to fatigue related issues, at least in part. A few guys have literally dropped dead, one on a JFK layover. Cumulative fatigue does kill.
Many many more of my friends and acquaintances have moved on to other positions. The Americans all came back to the USA or retired. Many Europeans have gone back to LCC jobs in their home countries. Some do stay for various reasons, usually it is because their countries have terrible options for returning ( Zimbabwe, South Africa, etc). Others just counting the days until they retire.
Emirates was a great option post 9-11 when I joined and in the post 2008 economic meltdown when many more joined. It is no longer a great option, but it may become an option in the post pandemic world. Just realize it is a job that is going to work you to the bone while only giving you the minimum possible compensation that management thinks they can get away with.
As for the other guy posting about Qatar being better, Doha is a ****hole compared to Dubai. Qatar management fires guys at the drop of a hat. Not that EK doesn't let people go, but at least it is a more transparent process. A very good friend left EK and came to where I was working. He left there and went to Qatar as a DEC on the B777. He liked the flying, but had that terrible nagging feeling of being under the gun on every flight. Instead of being happy with a well managed flight like at Emirates, he stated that is was more of a relief that he wouldn't be getting into trouble or terminated for having made a mistake. He also felt completely alone in Doha with nothing to do. He left Qatar after just a year there.
Of course everyone's mileage will vary with these jobs.
It seems to me that a lot of people go to Emirates because of its initial appeal, and then back out because, in reality, it’s not so great?
04-13-2020, 03:35 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: tri current
Posts: 1,485
Originally Posted by DylanHK
Wow, what a response! I appreciate it. Currently working at a regional as a CA, would you say it’s better to not go through the trouble of flying for Emirates and just go straight to a legacy if offered the job?
It seems to me that a lot of people go to Emirates because of its initial appeal, and then back out because, in reality, it’s not so great?
It seems to me that a lot of people go to Emirates because of its initial appeal, and then back out because, in reality, it’s not so great?
I honestly don't know any Americans who have gone to Emirates in the last 5 years or more. I doubt that there are many given how the U.S. airlines have been hiring in that time.
After my first expat experience in the mid 90s, I came back to the USA saying this, "I would rather be an F.O. at a U.S. carrier than a Captain overseas". Up until a month or two ago that would be my exact sentiment. I would not leave a job in the USA for an F.O. job overseas. The only time it makes sense is when there are no jobs in the USA, which may become the case soon.
When I left the USA in late 2002 I did it with the thought that it would be a maximum 10-15 year deal. I lasted 11, so I was right in my predicted range. The point being, any move to a job overseas needs to be well thought out with an exit strategy back to your home country. If you have a significant other, he/she needs to be in agreement with that strategy.
For those who know what I do now, I am speaking more about airline than other types of flying.
04-13-2020, 03:46 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2016
Position: A350 CA
Posts: 295
Originally Posted by DylanHK
Wow, what a response! I appreciate it. Currently working at a regional as a CA, would you say it’s better to not go through the trouble of flying for Emirates and just go straight to a legacy if offered the job?
It seems to me that a lot of people go to Emirates because of its initial appeal, and then back out because, in reality, it’s not so great?
It seems to me that a lot of people go to Emirates because of its initial appeal, and then back out because, in reality, it’s not so great?
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