The Norwegian Cockroach
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 218
So in your world, someone who is not line checked as a captain, is not PC'd as a captain, is not listed as a captain on the release, and is unable to log P1 time is still somehow a captain?! How does that work? I'd like to hear your logic. I am sure there are tens of thousands of FOs out there that would love to hear it too. Oh, and let the FAA and EASA know as well, I am sure they would be interested to hear your logic.
Last edited by ObadiahDogberry; 02-24-2021 at 07:46 AM.
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,160
So in your world, someone who is not line checked as a captain, is not PC'd as a captain, is not listed as a captain on the release, and is unable to log P1 time is still somehow a captain?! How does that work? I'd like to hear your logic. I am sure there are tens of thousands of FOs out there that would love to hear it too. Oh, and let the FAA and EASA know as well, I am sure they would be interested to hear your logic.
How many stripes does the relief captain have? 4? What's his title? Relief captain?
But sure, he's only called a captain; he's not a captain.
P1 is a new term to me. We use PIC time. And yes, one person on the flight deck logs PIC time. Because you can't log PIC time in the bunk. Or is that another euro thing? Logging P1 (if that's what you call it) time while unconscious in the bunks?
You are definitely not familiar with the FARs. In accordance with FAR 61.51, a relief captain will log PIC time when he is on duty and in charge on the flight deck.
It sounds like you're just making stuff up to justify your pretzel logic.
'A relief captain's not a captain' ... amusing. No wonder you were stuck working at Norwegian. Cream of the crop.
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Position: B747 FO
Posts: 610
I confess that this is the first time I've ever heard of a relief captain not being checked out as a captain. Must be a eurothing.
How many stripes does the relief captain have? 4? What's his title? Relief captain?
But sure, he's only called a captain; he's not a captain.
P1 is a new term to me. We use PIC time. And yes, one person on the flight deck logs PIC time. Because you can't log PIC time in the bunk. Or is that another euro thing? Logging P1 (if that's what you call it) time while unconscious in the bunks?
You are definitely not familiar with the FARs. In accordance with FAR 61.51, a relief captain will log PIC time when he is on duty and in charge on the flight deck.
It sounds like you're just making stuff up to justify your pretzel logic.
'A relief captain's not a captain' ... amusing. No wonder you were stuck working at Norwegian. Cream of the crop.
How many stripes does the relief captain have? 4? What's his title? Relief captain?
But sure, he's only called a captain; he's not a captain.
P1 is a new term to me. We use PIC time. And yes, one person on the flight deck logs PIC time. Because you can't log PIC time in the bunk. Or is that another euro thing? Logging P1 (if that's what you call it) time while unconscious in the bunks?
You are definitely not familiar with the FARs. In accordance with FAR 61.51, a relief captain will log PIC time when he is on duty and in charge on the flight deck.
It sounds like you're just making stuff up to justify your pretzel logic.
'A relief captain's not a captain' ... amusing. No wonder you were stuck working at Norwegian. Cream of the crop.
#105
So in your world, someone who is not line checked as a captain, is not PC'd as a captain, is not listed as a captain on the release, and is unable to log P1 time is still somehow a captain?! How does that work? I'd like to hear your logic. I am sure there are tens of thousands of FOs out there that would love to hear it too. Oh, and let the FAA and EASA know as well, I am sure they would be interested to hear your logic.
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 218
You are not completely correct. Principally the Relief captain was not a senior FO. As per the manual the RC was to be in command whenever the Commander/P1 was off duty. The time logged as such was PIC-US (under supervision). To muddy the waters further many commanders were EX-KLM, Virgin, Emirates etc. and had a tendency to implement whatever structure they were familiar with prior and therefore did not actually treat RCA’s as intended. This made for some interesting situations especially with the KLM types (think stereotypical Naval aviator attitude) and autocratic Emirates guys with their sandbox CRM. It was a dung show at times.
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 218
I confess that this is the first time I've ever heard of a relief captain not being checked out as a captain. Must be a eurothing.
How many stripes does the relief captain have? 4? What's his title? Relief captain?
But sure, he's only called a captain; he's not a captain.
P1 is a new term to me. We use PIC time. And yes, one person on the flight deck logs PIC time. Because you can't log PIC time in the bunk. Or is that another euro thing? Logging P1 (if that's what you call it) time while unconscious in the bunks?
You are definitely not familiar with the FARs. In accordance with FAR 61.51, a relief captain will log PIC time when he is on duty and in charge on the flight deck.
It sounds like you're just making stuff up to justify your pretzel logic.
'A relief captain's not a captain' ... amusing. No wonder you were stuck working at Norwegian. Cream of the crop.
How many stripes does the relief captain have? 4? What's his title? Relief captain?
But sure, he's only called a captain; he's not a captain.
P1 is a new term to me. We use PIC time. And yes, one person on the flight deck logs PIC time. Because you can't log PIC time in the bunk. Or is that another euro thing? Logging P1 (if that's what you call it) time while unconscious in the bunks?
You are definitely not familiar with the FARs. In accordance with FAR 61.51, a relief captain will log PIC time when he is on duty and in charge on the flight deck.
It sounds like you're just making stuff up to justify your pretzel logic.
'A relief captain's not a captain' ... amusing. No wonder you were stuck working at Norwegian. Cream of the crop.
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 121
what is the differnece bteween working for ghe devil vs. Selling your soul?
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 121
I confess that this is the first time I've ever heard of a relief captain not being checked out as a captain. Must be a eurothing.
How many stripes does the relief captain have? 4? What's his title? Relief captain?
But sure, he's only called a captain; he's not a captain.
P1 is a new term to me. We use PIC time. And yes, one person on the flight deck logs PIC time. Because you can't log PIC time in the bunk. Or is that another euro thing? Logging P1 (if that's what you call it) time while unconscious in the bunks?
You are definitely not familiar with the FARs. In accordance with FAR 61.51, a relief captain will log PIC time when he is on duty and in charge on the flight deck.
It sounds like you're just making stuff up to justify your pretzel logic.
'A relief captain's not a captain' ... amusing. No wonder you were stuck working at Norwegian. Cream of the crop.
How many stripes does the relief captain have? 4? What's his title? Relief captain?
But sure, he's only called a captain; he's not a captain.
P1 is a new term to me. We use PIC time. And yes, one person on the flight deck logs PIC time. Because you can't log PIC time in the bunk. Or is that another euro thing? Logging P1 (if that's what you call it) time while unconscious in the bunks?
You are definitely not familiar with the FARs. In accordance with FAR 61.51, a relief captain will log PIC time when he is on duty and in charge on the flight deck.
It sounds like you're just making stuff up to justify your pretzel logic.
'A relief captain's not a captain' ... amusing. No wonder you were stuck working at Norwegian. Cream of the crop.
P1 is a common term for PIC. He can log PIC even sleeping in the bunk. The RCA only logs PIC/US when the P1 is in bunk. For an FO to become RCA, he has to follow the upgrade process (interview, evaluation, sim check, line check etc). For an RCA to become Captain, he also has to follow the upgrade process. This is very typical of many non-US airlines.
This is to create a chain of command structure so that when the P1 is resting in the bunk and a decision has to be made, everyone knows who to defer to (also knows who to blame I guess)
Like in AF447 where they had 2 FO sitting up front, no one knows who was in command. No one knows who was PF neither.
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