Originally Posted by fcoolaiddrinker

Im going to try and breakdown the pro's and cons of our LTD vs. NK because there seems to be some misunderstanding. If I miss something or get something wrong someone fell free to correct with FACTS and not emotion please. Ours is 8000 theirs 5000 grand. Pro's to NK vs ours. Own occupation, ability to buy up to 15,000 through the company. Pro's to our deal, 8000 is substantially higher, and ability to change taxable during open enrollment or life changing event. To me thats a pretty nice loophole for us with no downside. If I know that Im having major surgery (knee replacement for example) Im potentially putting it off a few months and changing my benefit in nov. I don't think NK can do this but Im not 100% on that?

A few misunderstanding with NK structure. You can't buy up to 15 unless its 60% of your W2 (the benefit is 180 grand at 15). That means 300 grand. Unless your flying a ton thats pretty much top captains. So in reality I would be surprised if there were more than 100 pilots at 15 grand.

A few misunderstandings about our LTD. You can buy own occupation up to 15 grand on the open market so in theory your buy up cost will be higher than NK (their cost is lower due to being in a pool) but your buying up only 7 compared to their 10. I have to believe thats close to a wash.

After having conversations with more than one of our pilots that have been on LTD for years their not concerned at all of getting kicked off. However, A few thing do happen at the two year mark. First, Hartford makes you apply for ss disability. If your eligible for that it comes out of the 8 grand and in the end you still get 8 grand. Second they do a stress test. If they believe you can make 60% of your current salary based on guarantee and pay rate they can kick you off. Having said that this hasn't happened yet and that 60% number will be substantially higher.

In the end I have no issues at all with LTD after they fixed the taxability of it. Were arguing over dollars that can be fixed on the open market. Personally ill do 8 grand, keep it tax free and not buy up.

Originally Posted by BKbigfish

There are two key things you should care about with LTD:

1) Own occupation
2) Max benefit

There are obviously other factors but those are the two key components to a quality LTD package. If you don’t have “own occupation” language, it’s potentially worthless. At NK, our previous policy had a max benefit of $10k/month but it was not own occupation... now it’s $15k/month with own occupation language. The buy up is a non-issue. Because it’s a group plan the buy up is extremely reasonable and light years more affordable than you’d be able to find on the open market. The other benefit to the buy up is that any buy up portion is tax free so to be honest I prefer having a smaller company funded “core” policy with a larger buy up. As far as the max benefit not affecting very many people... I’ve been here (NK) 5 years and my LTD benefit in 2019 will be $13k+/month should I need to use it. I would venture to say that anybody in the left seat would make good use of that LTD buy up.

The areas we fell short on this LTD policy were income offsets and continued DC retirement contributions when out on LTD (I believe only Delta has that).

I don’t know all the details of F9’s proposed LTD but based on what you’ve posted NK’s LTD policy appears to be far superior.

Originally Posted by F9forNow

AVG $150.45 ----$(12.00)--- $(900.07)-------$(10,800.82)

Originally Posted by fcoolaiddrinker

I guess we will have to just disagree then. Our Ltd isn’t worthless due to it no being own occupation. It’s guaranteed 8 grand for two years (tax free if I want) then extremely difficult to get kicked. As in it’s never happened to my knowledge. Yours is 5 grand ( till retirement) I can Buy up (own occupation) on my own for under $100 a month. I’m not even going to do this. That’s how confident I am that I’m not getting kicked. So in the end I’m getting 8 your getting 5. To me that’s pretty much a wash. I wouldn’t call it far superior by any stretch. If own occupation language gives you the warm fuzzy feeling I guess it’s worth giving up 3 grand a month? I’ll take 8 over 5 and forgo own occupation. To each his own. Thanks for the insight.

Originally Posted by fcoolaiddrinker

I guess we will have to just disagree then. Our Ltd isn’t worthless due to it no being own occupation. It’s guaranteed 8 grand for two years (tax free if I want) then extremely difficult to get kicked. As in it’s never happened to my knowledge. Yours is 5 grand ( till retirement) I can Buy up (own occupation) on my own for under $100 a month. I’m not even going to do this. That’s how confident I am that I’m not getting kicked. So in the end I’m getting 8 your getting 5. To me that’s pretty much a wash. I wouldn’t call it far superior by any stretch. If own occupation language gives you the warm fuzzy feeling I guess it’s worth giving up 3 grand a month? I’ll take 8 over 5 and forgo own occupation. To each his own. Thanks for the insight.

Originally Posted by fcoolaiddrinker

I guess we will have to just disagree then. Our Ltd isn’t worthless due to it no being own occupation. It’s guaranteed 8 grand for two years (tax free if I want) then extremely difficult to get kicked. As in it’s never happened to my knowledge. Yours is 5 grand ( till retirement) I can Buy up (own occupation) on my own for under $100 a month. I’m not even going to do this. That’s how confident I am that I’m not getting kicked. So in the end I’m getting 8 your getting 5. To me that’s pretty much a wash. I wouldn’t call it far superior by any stretch. If own occupation language gives you the warm fuzzy feeling I guess it’s worth giving up 3 grand a month? I’ll take 8 over 5 and forgo own occupation. To each his own. Thanks for the insight.

Originally Posted by symbian simian

Brother, you need to go back to primary school for a couple of lessons in writing and math. Just because something hasn't happened "to your knowledge", doesn't mean it won't. If you don't have own occupation you WILL lose your benefits, maybe not after 2 years, but there is no way the company is going to fund your sorry ass till you are 65. I just had a very close experience with this, and that person works for the company full of love, and after 2 years the court case started to see if they could get the SSA to take over the payments. For me to bump it up from 5K to $8K a month OWN occupation, I would pay $23 per month. You cannot buy own occupation coverage for 8K for less than $100/month. ALPA LOL insurance for a 40 year old, $2400 benefit per month is over a $100 per month.

If you seriously think this is a wash, you need your head examined.

Originally Posted by fcoolaiddrinker

First off it would be 7 to get to 15. Next, I dealt with insurance issues for the union (for several years) so to my “knowledge” is little more in depth than the average line pilot and third the company has zero input. It’s the insurance policy. I already explained the ss disability request after 2 years. Thanks for your input.

Originally Posted by symbian simian

No, because your 8K don't count because it isn't own occupation. You didn't explain anything about the ss request, you said it wouldn't affect the pay out and that is just flat out wrong. you ask for input, I gave input, you don't want to hear input.

Yes, you get 2 years at 8 grand. What are you going to do for the next 20 years?

PM me if you want to know why I care. I don't want to share medical details on here but I am sure, from personal experience, that what you say you have doesn't come close to what you would need to support your family if things went south with your medical.