Union is right! Spirit plus 1
12-17-2018, 10:15 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
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Joined APC: Nov 2018
Posts: 109
Medical
Spirits appears cheaper.
New hires are given 33 hrs.
F9-Zero
The accrual rate is slightly higher at Spirit too. The conversion equates to a Spirit Pilot maxing out at 140 days v F9’s 120.
Spirit pilots can cash out unpaid sick bank at retirement. Can we do that with our new TA at F9? No.
If you go out on medical at spirit, they cover your premiums even after you run out of sick time. They pay it for 9 months. F9 does not do this. The pilot must pay the entire premium, including the company portion, as soon as his sick and vacation time is spent. Just play the “what if” game and see how it would work out for you and your family. Personally, I have ALPA and HARVEY WHATT plans. I have a fully funded emergency fund and this still scares me.
Spirits appears cheaper.
New hires are given 33 hrs.
F9-Zero
The accrual rate is slightly higher at Spirit too. The conversion equates to a Spirit Pilot maxing out at 140 days v F9’s 120.
Spirit pilots can cash out unpaid sick bank at retirement. Can we do that with our new TA at F9? No.
If you go out on medical at spirit, they cover your premiums even after you run out of sick time. They pay it for 9 months. F9 does not do this. The pilot must pay the entire premium, including the company portion, as soon as his sick and vacation time is spent. Just play the “what if” game and see how it would work out for you and your family. Personally, I have ALPA and HARVEY WHATT plans. I have a fully funded emergency fund and this still scares me.
12-17-2018, 10:19 PM
#13
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Joined APC: Nov 2018
Posts: 109
Moving
F9 Pilots are only entitled to moving benefits only if they have been involuntary displaced. This includes upgrade. Oh wait, involuntarily displaced pilots do get one benefit—4 unpaid days off!
Spirit-Moving benefits for both voluntary and involuntary moves.
They get 8 PAID days off.
In addition, Spirit will move 18,000 lbs of household goods. F9, 12,500.
If a spirit pilot elects to move himself, he will be compensated $2500. A Involuntarily displaced frontier pilot can get a whopping $500.
F9 Pilots are only entitled to moving benefits only if they have been involuntary displaced. This includes upgrade. Oh wait, involuntarily displaced pilots do get one benefit—4 unpaid days off!
Spirit-Moving benefits for both voluntary and involuntary moves.
They get 8 PAID days off.
In addition, Spirit will move 18,000 lbs of household goods. F9, 12,500.
If a spirit pilot elects to move himself, he will be compensated $2500. A Involuntarily displaced frontier pilot can get a whopping $500.
12-17-2018, 10:21 PM
#15
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Joined APC: Nov 2018
Posts: 109
Reassignment
Our language is loose. We can be reassigned at the company’s whim. Spirit pilots, except under very specific circumstances, cannot unless by pilot consent. Spirit has greater punitive pay mechanisms than our TA for reassignment.
Our language is loose. We can be reassigned at the company’s whim. Spirit pilots, except under very specific circumstances, cannot unless by pilot consent. Spirit has greater punitive pay mechanisms than our TA for reassignment.
12-17-2018, 10:23 PM
#16
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Joined APC: Nov 2018
Posts: 109
Originally Posted by Biffsteritis
Absolutely spot on! You cannot be notified of schedule changes via ACARS! Initially, I misread this too.
Here’s what the TA actually says:
“A non-reserve Pilot shall be considered available for Reassignment when he is removed from a Sequence (or portion thereof) regardless of whether the flight(s) cancels or operates. “
“all Company initiated changes . . . to a Pilot’s schedule and/or Reserve assignments require Positive Telephone Contact with the Pilot, or electronic self-notification.”
“While a message (including telephone, Company radio, and ACARS, etc.) may be left for a Pilot, the message shall not be considered received, and the Pilot is therefore not considered notified of an assignment, until Positive Telephone Contact with the Pilot has been made or the Pilot has acknowledged the schedule change via the Company’s electronic notification system. “
“The Company reserves the right to install software to manage configuration, Company documents, and Company-provided software on the EFB . . . the Company may elect to provide “ship sets”.”
“A Pilot . . . will respond to notifications, if any, within fifteen (15) minutes after Block In, or completion of duties relating to that flight.”
There’s no requirement for us in the TA to own a mobile phone. We are only required to provide three phone numbers. These could be to a land line. However, the company can easily circumvent the cleaver pilot. Let’s not forget that our requirement to check-in and out is not contractually covered and is instead mandated by VOL I. The company could contractually, as outlined from the TA excerpts above, use our existing crewtrac notification system or install one on our EFB, and require us to check it at check-in, before flight, or after the completion of every flight.
Here’s what the TA actually says:
“A non-reserve Pilot shall be considered available for Reassignment when he is removed from a Sequence (or portion thereof) regardless of whether the flight(s) cancels or operates. “
“all Company initiated changes . . . to a Pilot’s schedule and/or Reserve assignments require Positive Telephone Contact with the Pilot, or electronic self-notification.”
“While a message (including telephone, Company radio, and ACARS, etc.) may be left for a Pilot, the message shall not be considered received, and the Pilot is therefore not considered notified of an assignment, until Positive Telephone Contact with the Pilot has been made or the Pilot has acknowledged the schedule change via the Company’s electronic notification system. “
“The Company reserves the right to install software to manage configuration, Company documents, and Company-provided software on the EFB . . . the Company may elect to provide “ship sets”.”
“A Pilot . . . will respond to notifications, if any, within fifteen (15) minutes after Block In, or completion of duties relating to that flight.”
There’s no requirement for us in the TA to own a mobile phone. We are only required to provide three phone numbers. These could be to a land line. However, the company can easily circumvent the cleaver pilot. Let’s not forget that our requirement to check-in and out is not contractually covered and is instead mandated by VOL I. The company could contractually, as outlined from the TA excerpts above, use our existing crewtrac notification system or install one on our EFB, and require us to check it at check-in, before flight, or after the completion of every flight.
12-17-2018, 10:24 PM
#17
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Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 104
Originally Posted by Biffsteritis
Spirit provides a non-punitive meal break.
We have the FARs as our only protection.
Spirit pays their pilot’s $50 if they choose not to stay in a company hotel (there are some caveats)
F9-No such option
We have the FARs as our only protection.
Spirit pays their pilot’s $50 if they choose not to stay in a company hotel (there are some caveats)
F9-No such option
But yeah...an extra $75 for working Christmas would be nice
12-17-2018, 10:24 PM
#18
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2018
Posts: 109
Spirit-Duty Rig: 1 hour for 2 per FDP
F9-Trip Rig: 1 for 3.5
Note: F9’s TA rig is industry standard. It’s not nearly as special as the roadshows and videos make it out.
You guys do the math on your own Trips.
F9-Trip Rig: 1 for 3.5
Note: F9’s TA rig is industry standard. It’s not nearly as special as the roadshows and videos make it out.
You guys do the math on your own Trips.
12-17-2018, 10:27 PM
#20
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2018
Posts: 109
There are a few small areas that we are equal to our brothers at spirit.
Uniform allowance, hotel selection, lack of pbs language, 100% dh, surface transportation equates similarly, 16 hr max duty day, same fit for duty language,
In the spirit of objectivity, we beat spirit in a few areas: we can’t be assigned training during or adjacent to vacation, and No JA, reserves can pick up flying on their off days. I’m sure there are some that I have not include too, but they are like searching for a needle in a haystack.
Uniform allowance, hotel selection, lack of pbs language, 100% dh, surface transportation equates similarly, 16 hr max duty day, same fit for duty language,
In the spirit of objectivity, we beat spirit in a few areas: we can’t be assigned training during or adjacent to vacation, and No JA, reserves can pick up flying on their off days. I’m sure there are some that I have not include too, but they are like searching for a needle in a haystack.
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