You’re basically arguing a bird in hand...

The bird we hold is the disgusting, aids ridden, NYC, stumbling sideways, greasy pigeon that you would cross the street to avoid for fear of avian bird flu. I’d rather take the time and find something a little nicer.

 

It wasn't supposed to be a jab (well not a mean spirited one anyway.) I'm just saying your messaging is consistent and targeted. You are lobbying the group toward your point of view. Own it.

Gamble? Sure. Risky? A little maybe, but decisions cannot always be based on a simple monetary risk/reward analysis. The greater good is often worth sacrifice, even substantial sacrifice.

All this comes down to one's personal value system also. That's why it is such a complex decision.

 

Risk averse people don't think like this. For many years I was this way, it steals more from you than it ever gives.

 

I assume you are referring to PBS language? As the unknown?

I can't understand this argument. Voting No is the unknown!

Unknown how long it will take to reach a TA2.
Unknown what a TA2 will include?
Unknown what will happen with the ratification incentive? Will it stay the same? That's unknown.
Unknown what the union will ask for in TA2.
Unknown what the company will ask for.

Voting no is a gamble of unknowns.

What I know for sure is that if we vote this down, we will lose money. What's unknown is if we will ever make it back.

You are asking me to take a gamble with known financial loses. I understand that you are willing to take that gamble. I am not. I'm voting on a known package, you are voting for the unknown.

 

Ok, once again, THIS ISNT HARD.

Voting this TA down sends a messages. That message is to management, to potential new hires and to us pilots ourselves. The management piece is that the TA is garbage and we need more. This part speaks for itself. It’s one thing to realize the TA is bad; it’s complwtely another to try and justify it as being industry standard or average or even as good as NK.

The new hire piece is that this may take a while and that it’s still not worth it to come here but should be in 6 to 9 months - maybe longer. New hires will respect the fact that we’re fighting for more and the place will be that much better when they do apply. This in turn will dry up the application/hiring pool and force Indigo to give us more.

The pilot piece is the most important. It does several things of which one is it tells our NC, whomever that becomes, that the ratification bonus of $75 mil now needs to be larger to compensate for the time lost between LOA 67 and TA2 (or 3 or whatever). Management understands this. Why don’t we?

This is one of the most ridiculous parts of the Yes vote mentality - that somehow voting no means the ratification bonus that the company already acknowledged as having been needed by offering one in the first place, will somehow be the same or lower. Who thinks this way?

These are NEGOTIATIONS!!!!! Not “here’s your first and only offer - take it or leave it.”

Why are the Yes voters so scared? Did canceling a few vacations do that too you?

 

Well, that all sounds great. Except you have absolutely no guarantee that any of that is going to work out in our favor.

Sure, if the ratification grows from 75M to 100M, that'd be great. Except it might not.

If the pool of pilot applicants dries up, that'd be great. Except that it wont.

So far, not much has gone our way here except that we reached a deal quicker than expected.

You are assuming that TA2 becomes substantially better, the ratification becomes larger and the deal is reached quickly. That's a lot of assumptions.

You are obviously free to take that gamble. I am not going to.

 

Again, I asked the question and you left it unanswered. Seriously, I would like to know which tactic or combination of that management did that made you so scared to take a chance that TA2 will be better “enough” to see?

 

I'm not scared. Management didn't do anything to scare me.

I am looking at a $50,000 raise. If it takes 12 months to reach TA2, I'm at least 50,000 in the hole. I do not see TA2 making up the difference.

The math scares me. Not management.

 

If the hiring stops...the upgrades will stop too. So will the deliveries and the growth.

Indigo has all the tools necessary to make our life 100% miserable until at least 50% vote in favor of something.

If the TA is voted down, the good news our sick language that everyone is ****ed about will still be in our CBA. Perhaps the NO voters can get a company mandated head examination at a doctor of “their” choice!

 

What is your self respect as a professional pilot worth?

BTW. I didn’t find a place to enter that in the infamous BK calculator.