I want an MEC who applies pressure on the Company. MM is not. Yeah survey's about communications. You seriously don't see the problem with this?

Are you implying that there is some sweet new CBA that we all just don't know about because it's hidden behind some NDA? Yes VAUGE the memos are VAUGE as in lacking specific information to the point of being useless to read because they contain no information. Yes maybe I should call him and tell him how to do his job. I am sure he will snap to and get to work right away. Did anybody ever stop and think " the mediation board much like a marriage counselor is NOT ON YOUR SIDE." Is this not the same tactic we took last time? how did that work out? how did we actually get a contract last time? Does anyone want to explain to the rest of us who "just don't understand how things work" why this is different from last time? Nope no one can be bothered. Least not MM he is probable busy answering all the phone calls from disgruntled union members rightfully wondering WTF is going on. Why would he want to show any leadership and address us as a group when he can answer the same fifteen questions five hundred times.

Things are grinding along very slow. Management is not going to make any deals because they feel no pressure. Meanwhile the entire pilot group is flailing in the wind. I keep hearing about Unity as some vague context like a political slogan. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? Are we working as hard as posable to show profits or are we pushing hard to prevent corner cutting and get things done right. There is no Unity in this. We all just do our own thing because we have no guidance from leadership, we have no feed back, we have no meetings, or even comradery.

We can all eyeball this and see how long things are going to take. A VERY LONG TIME. Heat death of the universe long. If it is going to take that long I want somebody else steering the ship. This is like being told to fill a water bottle with your own tears. The company and the NMB will insist the only way to fill that bottle is with our own tears but there are many other ways to fill that bottle that will be much faster.

My problem with our current strategy is the forever moving goal post "2years, 4years 8years we will get a contract eventually" and so much of it falls down to the mediation board. Who some how have the power to control billions of dollars ,but are Altruistic and incorruptible. So lets spend YEARS sucking up to them like a good child pointing a finger saying "see ,see look the aren't negotiating " to which the mediator who will look down at the statements and say "they can't afford to pay you more" This is part of the reason so many people are leaving. It's not just a lack of confidence in the Company but also the Union. Our Union is dead set on staying on the tracks regardless of where it goes, or how long it takes to get there. In MM's mind the only way to fill that bottle is with tears.

 

You want an mec who applies pressure on the company. So definitely not the rogue MCO DEN reps that apply pressure to volunteers and remove pressure from the company with smaller committees. Understood.

 

I want an MEC that negotiates as hard as you gatekeep this forum. Do they compensate you with Jimmy Johns?

 

You do spend a lot of time gate keeping. You have been around a while. Not sure I agree with your representation of what is going on with the DEN and MCO reps. MM's memo to the fact sure did not explain any thing. But I'll put that aside for now and just ask the same four questions.

Is this not the same tactic we took last time?

How did that work out/ What happened?

How did we actually get a contract last time?

Why this is different from last time?

Anybody can answer these questions I would like to hear some different perspectives. To many of us don't know what happened and we can never build real Unity out of Ignorance of the past.
If we want a contract we need engagement. We need people to know what has happened, and We need people to understand how things are going to move forward. A timeline with benchmark accomplishes would make me feel at least like we have a plan and a fall back position.

I understand this is more work then the normal glib, dunking, whining and bickering so many of come here for. Take solace in the fact that this may lead to some productive engagement.

 

I’d start with a review of the RLA and how Section 6 works. Not a knock on F9 but I would say out of ALL PT121pilots 60%+ really don’t have a real working knowledge of how it all works.

After that groundwork is laid I would focus on recent history and how the last contract was achieved and how Indigo negotiates pilot contracts.

 

Good advice. I’m going to stop gate keeping for a while. Carry on.

 

Thats good advice. Indigos legal team does their job well. They learn from previous mistakes and do not give hand outs unless it is to their benefit. It's business and you can't fault them for that.
Planning for this current cycle began a few months after the last was signed. One example is LOA 4. Anyone interested should read it for themselves. Indigo almost made the same mistake twice. Ask yourself. When was it signed? Why was this so importaint to Indigo? And when did they finally utilize this benefit given to them? It gives insight as to how they negotiate several steps ahead.

 

During the last negotiation, the company was wildly profitable and was still not negotiating in good faith. I’m sure you’ve heard of LOA 67

However, the pilot group was much more unified back then, IMO. I would attribute this to variety of reasons.

Geographically speaking, for the majority of that negotiation, we had 3 bases, DEN, MCO, and CHI. LAS opened later in the process.

This time, we have 13 bases. Pilots are now spread out and segmented. Some attitudes are territorial.

Financially, the company is not wildly profitable anymore. If they were not negotiating when they were profitable they aren’t going to be backing up the Brinks truck when they are surviving on SLB gains. One of the triggers to get the last CBA was Spirit getting theirs a year prior. That’s how PBS and the payrates came about, as far as Indigo is concerned, what goes on at spirit has always affected what happens at frontier. Pilots were unified around the fact that the company could absolutely afford to pay for a new contract. Right now, IMO, F9 pilots don’t see eye to eye on the financial state of the airline.

Industry experience and career goals is another one that has changed IMO. The turnover during the last negotiation was a fraction of what it has been post Covid. Motivations differ amongst the group. Some want to get their time and leave, some are here to stay. Some love the turn model, some hate the turn model.


to execute on a plan to get anywhere pilots will need a shared vision.

 

There is a shared vision among all the FOs, and that is to GTFO before they get locked into being stuck at Frontier for the rest of their careers. Godspeed.

 

From what I’m reading and hearing about this new CEO there is no room in the budget for a new pilot contract in 2026. So basically maybe 2027 to seriously negotiating the contract and maybe implementing it in 2028? Hope that’s not the case but I’ve not heard one good thing about this CEO from Frontier Pilots. Hoping you guys get the contract you deserve and sooner than later.