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How long for a contract?

Old 04-21-2026 | 02:55 AM
  #2581  
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Originally Posted by RJTPA
Easy. I just went to recurrent. Spoke with the union and have spoken with sim instructors and other union pilots. ALPA national estimates AQP will save the company $1 million a year. That’s it. And that’s just for the AQP program itself, not doing training in MCO which will obviously save the company more. My understanding is that AQP is outside of the cba and can be implemented with or without an LOA. 169 seems to think we have leverage. Boy I wish that were true, but it’s simply not. At best we can hope to get some work rules for the Sim instructors, that is all. There will be no financial gain from this LOA for us. So having said that since the company can implement this with or without us, we might as well be involved so we can be a part of the process of the training program.. I’m never in favor of doing LOA’s while we’re in section 6 but in this instance, it seems stupid not to be a part of it. I would love to ask for a 10% raise with this LOA, but it’s just not happening. Where our union has really failed yet again is communication. We’re all getting secondhand information and hearsay instead of constant communication from the union that we pay a lot of money in dues to.
The company cannot implement AQP without the LOA because they don’t have the sim capability in Denver. The only training allowed outside of Denver is for new hires. The AQP LOA offers significant cost savings to the company: flexibility to lease sims outside of Denver, no hotels during recurrent training, no deadheads, no per diem, no transportation cost. They can hire in-base instructors. Again, no DH pay and no hotel pay, no per diem.

If you’re a commuter it’s not a great deal.

I agree with you that the leverage won’t get us any kind of immediate pay bump, but I do believe that issues like these can speed up our timeline to a new contract. And don’t get me wrong, I want AQP, but I also don’t want to continue giving things away if they can be used for our benefit.
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Old 04-21-2026 | 02:57 AM
  #2582  
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Originally Posted by Mugatu
MM could’ve done a great job if he was allowed.
MM should have had the leadership ability and the political prowess to wrangle these guys in and control the union. He’s the MEC chair.
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Old 04-21-2026 | 02:58 AM
  #2583  
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Originally Posted by Biffsteritis
The company cannot implement AQP without the LOA because they don’t have the sim capability in Denver. The only training allowed outside of Denver is for new hires. The AQP LOA offers significant cost savings to the company: flexibility to lease sims outside of Denver, no hotels during recurrent training, no deadheads, no per diem, no transportation cost. They can hire in-base instructors. Again, no DH pay and no hotel pay, no per diem.

If you’re a commuter it’s not a great deal.

I agree with you that the leverage won’t get us any kind of immediate pay bump, but I do believe that issues like these can speed up our timeline to a new contract. And don’t get me wrong, I want AQP, but I also don’t want to continue giving things away if they can be used for our benefit.
we have zero leverage when it comes to AQP
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Old 04-21-2026 | 03:01 AM
  #2584  
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Originally Posted by Biffsteritis
MM should have had the leadership ability and the political prowess to wrangle these guys in and control the union. He’s the MEC chair.
He tried for two years. Sometimes you can't fix stupid.
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Old 04-21-2026 | 03:03 AM
  #2585  
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Originally Posted by 54baldwin
we have zero leverage when it comes to AQP
I wouldn't say zero, but it's not the golden ticket some believe. Anyway, I've gotta study for my jeopardy event...
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Old 04-21-2026 | 05:49 AM
  #2586  
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Originally Posted by Biffsteritis
MM should have had the leadership ability and the political prowess to wrangle these guys in and control the union. He’s the MEC chair.
You’re projecting the failure of dissenters Onto mm.

You’re actually behind the curve on this one and flat out wrong.

mm admitted to his mistakes he made in capitulating to this toxic group.


your comments are worthless and sound like a child complaining. Please keep your 1% opinion that no one shares to yourself.


A union is always fighting an uphill battle.

the laws are written to keep status quo and limit the unions ability to force progress.

we need to support our union leadership- the only people promoting our best interests.

your complaints show a lack of understanding and big picture thinking.

MM has been intelligent and communicated effectively all of the times both he made a mistake and why we are in the position we are in.

I will be voting out every single person who caused this.

your complaints about transparency for our own union are hilarious. You don’t want transparency to the pilot group? You want to blame one person for the inability to unit the pilot group? While he has taken steps to promote harmony and show a united front in spite of the his own personal interest in keeping individuals he promoted removing other officials to keep a small group happy. They weren’t and kept running with their own agenda.

your opinion is not appreciated. But sure keep projecting blame on the leadership instead of the dissenters.
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Old 04-21-2026 | 06:22 AM
  #2587  
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Originally Posted by VisionWings
Please keep your 1% opinion that no one shares to yourself.
I don't like commenting on 'serious' stuff here because hell, I'm just here for the memes.

...BUT...

Treating this like it's just some rogue 1% is literally why we're where we are right now.

MM's podcast was the equivalent to the shocked Pikachu meme....which is funny because I'm shocked he didn't see this coming YEARS ago.
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Old 04-21-2026 | 07:18 AM
  #2588  
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Originally Posted by VisionWings
You’re projecting the failure of dissenters Onto mm.

You’re actually behind the curve on this one and flat out wrong.

mm admitted to his mistakes he made in capitulating to this toxic group.


your comments are worthless and sound like a child complaining. Please keep your 1% opinion that no one shares to yourself.


A union is always fighting an uphill battle.

the laws are written to keep status quo and limit the unions ability to force progress.

we need to support our union leadership- the only people promoting our best interests.

your complaints show a lack of understanding and big picture thinking.

MM has been intelligent and communicated effectively all of the times both he made a mistake and why we are in the position we are in.

I will be voting out every single person who caused this.

your complaints about transparency for our own union are hilarious. You don’t want transparency to the pilot group? You want to blame one person for the inability to unit the pilot group? While he has taken steps to promote harmony and show a united front in spite of the his own personal interest in keeping individuals he promoted removing other officials to keep a small group happy. They weren’t and kept running with their own agenda.

your opinion is not appreciated. But sure keep projecting blame on the leadership instead of the dissenters.
Is that you Maynard? I thought the only one that sounded like a child was you on the podcast blaming everyone else and asking us to recall some of the LEC members.
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Old 04-21-2026 | 08:09 AM
  #2589  
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Originally Posted by Biffsteritis
Is that you Maynard? I thought the only one that sounded like a child was you on the podcast blaming everyone else and asking us to recall some of the LEC members.
MM biggest mistakes were acquiescing to the bozos at 165 and 169.

Probably more than 1%, but the same contingent who made those cute lanyards about the concession stand. No plan, just "no".
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Old 04-21-2026 | 08:46 AM
  #2590  
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Originally Posted by Biffsteritis
Is that you Maynard? I thought the only one that sounded like a child was you on the podcast blaming everyone else and asking us to recall some of the LEC members.
People like this only shows what MM had work with and all the more reason for a recall.
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