[QUOTE=Aero1900;3917724]Absolutely.

You guys are more upset about the union letting the company get a communication out before they did?Good lord, guys. It doesn't matter.


Thanks AERO...This is spot on. The entire message sent from the company isn’t worth a roll of TP. Disgusting, Disrespectful and hardly even laughable!! Management should damn well worry about how to make a profit, before we end up in the same tank as Spirit. A Pilot, even near industry standard contract will not create the failure of this airline nor the lack of save the day!!

 

[QUOTE=chinookwinds;3917728]The company clearly accomplished their goal: divide and conquer. The main objective of their communications is to brake our cohesiveness, to turn us against our own representation, and each other. Union busting 101, and they are very good at it. This is a fork on the road folks, you have to make a decision. Do you support the company, or your NC? A few people have commented on how they do not trust either side. Well, you really need to take your trust and deposit it on one side. There are only two teams here, and only one of them has your best interest in mind. It ain’t team BB/BF. There is no in between here. You have to make a conscious choice. I get it, some of you despise unions. Well, like it or not you belong to one. Embrace it, and trust that they have your best interest in mind. If you don’t support them now, then “video from the toilet” Biffle has gotten you.

 

[QUOTE=chinookwinds;3917728]You guys are right the union did it perfectly. They do everything perfect. It’s really amazing how they’re above reproach and know everything. We’re just the idiots that work here. I’ll keep my big mouth shut next time and I’ll be there for the ribbon cutting in 10 years when we sign this thing.

fwiw I wasn’t even suggesting they’re doing a bad job just that it would’ve been better imho to send something out with 47 that set the stage before the company could. It’s these union apologists that are divisive, you polarize people until they lick the boots of these volunteers or hate them because they can’t even say union without someone piping up about how amazing they are.

 

[QUOTE=CGLimits;3917776]what exactly has the company conquered? Just because I disagree with a small thing the union did or even if I disagreed with everything they did, do you think I won’t strike if the time comes? Or that I’ll sign a contract that makes me work for less than I’m worth? Your logic is flawed

 

[QUOTE=taketheshot;3917786]My message wasn’t directed at you. It’s more in regards to the people who at this particular time do not trust our union. If there is a time to trust one side over the other, it’s now. Our NC is not going to do everything perfectly, every time. It’s impossible, because each of us has a different definition of what perfect is at any given time, and each of has has different wants and needs. So instead of focusing on every little thing you think the union is doing wrong, focus on the end goal, and trust that they have your best interest in mind.

 

[QUOTE=CGLimits;3917790]Which side of the union do we trust? Everyone agrees the company cannot be trusted. It’s a rhetorical question I don’t care which side you believe we should trust. It’s to point out that you’re parroting something you’ve heard said to you before rather than critically thinking about these issues. You believe that someone questioning the union on a forum demonstrates lack of trust. This is not a monarchy or an oligarchy where the decisions of leadership should not be questioned. It’s effectively a democratic republic. It’s a structure where questions and dialogue should be encouraged and fielded frequently. “Trusting” in silence is not how you get an educated pilot group. When people really lay out their thoughts and the best most concise fact ridden argument wins. Not by screaming that everyone should shut up and trust the union already. Good grief why don’t you 5 posters who pipe up everyday field a few questions and make some honest arguments. I’m so done with “shut up and trust”. How many times have your heard “trust BUT VERIFY”.

 

[QUOTE=taketheshot;3917798]26 years, 2 airlines 5 rounds of negotiations. This will be my 6th CBA. Not parroting something I’ve heard. I’ve lived it.

 

[QUOTE=taketheshot;3917798]My initial response was a whole two sentences simply pointing out the union already told us what they would do and I am glad they haven’t given us reactionary emails prior to well thought out responses. Then noting that not everybody agrees. I didn’t say that was a problem. Simple fact.

You inferred and ran with it. You still sound pretty mad and are taking things personal. That will never lead to constructive discussion so have a great day.

 

[QUOTE=Stayontarget;3917816]you assumed you were one of the 5 posters? Guilty conscience.

 

[QUOTE=taketheshot;3917824]Nobody it seems is saying don’t question the union. Some have mentioned they don’t trust the union.

Some are calling what the company put out a proposal. It wasn’t. Just a bunch of no detailed asks and an average % number outlined in 3 paragraphs. In typical f9 management fashion cast a wide ambiguous net and make the union break down the garage they just put out. So is it ok to throw some FPL at those that are going to spend the next 5 days doing that? Or should we have them doing it on min rest layovers because the operation is melting down a bit right now. Maybe we can have them craft a response from the hotel lobby? Lol. Again this is why a larger management paid FPL number was needed for this round.

There’s one big reason that stands out for me personally to trust everyone in a union position that’s working to get us to a TA to vote on. They are going to be working under the same agreement you and I are. Same Ltd, health insurance, rig, vac, training, ect….

I don’t think anyone trusts our existing management but just incase someone does. Their overall compensation is somewhat based on keeping costs down. It’s really just that simple.