How long for a contract?
#21
I will try and find the article.
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: 1900D CA
Posts: 3,394
I actually think the Spirit contract is going to be a point of contention in our contract negotiations.
Everyone needs to understand what and why they did what they did.
After the agreement to merge with JetBlue, and in an attempt to try and slow down attrition, Spirit and Management agreed to a quick little pay raise contract. It was really just an extension of their old contract with higher pay rates. It's a short term deal until a joint contract can be negotiated between B6/NK. If the merger is not approved by the DOJ, Spirit will immediately return to negotiate a new, full contract.
Spirit agreed to a short term deal with very mediocre pay raises but with the promise of a future contract in the new future. (either a joint one with JetBlue or a full, new one if they stay independent)
The problem for us is that Frontier will definitely look at those pay rates and say "that's your 'peer group'
Everyone needs to be crystal clear that we can't look at those rates ($306/ hr for 12th year ca) as a comparison. The circumstances of their deal cannot be confused with what we are working towards. Obviously our union understands this but don't be surprised if we see a video from BL talking about Spirit and peer groups.
Btw, Spirit has admitted that the contract (pay raises they gave) hasn't done much or anything to stem attrition. If Frontier wants to seriously show down the attrition, they will need to pay a market rate for pilots.
Everyone needs to understand what and why they did what they did.
After the agreement to merge with JetBlue, and in an attempt to try and slow down attrition, Spirit and Management agreed to a quick little pay raise contract. It was really just an extension of their old contract with higher pay rates. It's a short term deal until a joint contract can be negotiated between B6/NK. If the merger is not approved by the DOJ, Spirit will immediately return to negotiate a new, full contract.
Spirit agreed to a short term deal with very mediocre pay raises but with the promise of a future contract in the new future. (either a joint one with JetBlue or a full, new one if they stay independent)
The problem for us is that Frontier will definitely look at those pay rates and say "that's your 'peer group'
Everyone needs to be crystal clear that we can't look at those rates ($306/ hr for 12th year ca) as a comparison. The circumstances of their deal cannot be confused with what we are working towards. Obviously our union understands this but don't be surprised if we see a video from BL talking about Spirit and peer groups.
Btw, Spirit has admitted that the contract (pay raises they gave) hasn't done much or anything to stem attrition. If Frontier wants to seriously show down the attrition, they will need to pay a market rate for pilots.
#24
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Joined APC: Mar 2022
Posts: 430
#25
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Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 664
A concession implies giving something up without gaining anything else. Assuming you’re talking about swap/drop etc, they didn’t ask for a concession. They asked to bring us in line with the rest of the industry. Which is also what we are asking for in regards to pay and benefits. We can either accept industry standard pay and industry standard scheduling flexibility (or lack thereof) or accept less somewhere else to keep our flexibility. I’m not being a company sympathizer or Debbie-Downer but this is how a mediator is going to look at it.
#28
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Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 617
A concession implies giving something up without gaining anything else. Assuming you’re talking about swap/drop etc, they didn’t ask for a concession. They asked to bring us in line with the rest of the industry. Which is also what we are asking for in regards to pay and benefits. We can either accept industry standard pay and industry standard scheduling flexibility (or lack thereof) or accept less somewhere else to keep our flexibility. I’m not being a company sympathizer or Debbie-Downer but this is how a mediator is going to look at it.
#29
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Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Lineholder
Posts: 1,356
Valid points. For what it’s worth, IF I had to choose, I’d keep the flexibility. There are so many people here who have never flown 121 before that I’m nervous we may end up going to an industry standard reserve-based drop/swap (aka: DENIED). I’d personally prefer to keep our flexibility even if it came with a lower hourly rate. I don’t believe that it is as much of an issue as they make it out to be though. Until lately (due to all of the premium flying) when a pilot dropped a trip into open time it was sucked up within 30 seconds (yes literally).
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the flexibility. But you can't put that in APC under the pay rates column. NO ONE IS COMING HERE for the flexibility. In fact, guys who have it are leaving. We need the RATES. We need to get paid - even if we have to give up some of the QoL items - just to be competitive w/ other airlines. Otherwise, we stagnate. And that wonderful flexibility is lessened by the fact that there are no upgrades, there's no open time and PAF is a desperate measure in the 11th hour that requires guys to be online 24/7 just to get it. Rates are king in this world.
TBH, there really should be no reason why we can't have the rates AND the flexibility. Imagine a AA pilot leaving for F9...
A competent CEO could manage this. Hell, he'd be PROUD to.
#30
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2019
Posts: 99
No no no!!!
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the flexibility. But you can't put that in APC under the pay rates column. NO ONE IS COMING HERE for the flexibility. In fact, guys who have it are leaving. We need the RATES. We need to get paid - even if we have to give up some of the QoL items - just to be competitive w/ other airlines. Otherwise, we stagnate. And that wonderful flexibility is lessened by the fact that there are no upgrades, there's no open time and PAF is a desperate measure in the 11th hour that requires guys to be online 24/7 just to get it. Rates are king in this world.
TBH, there really should be no reason why we can't have the rates AND the flexibility. Imagine a AA pilot leaving for F9...
A competent CEO could manage this. Hell, he'd be PROUD to.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the flexibility. But you can't put that in APC under the pay rates column. NO ONE IS COMING HERE for the flexibility. In fact, guys who have it are leaving. We need the RATES. We need to get paid - even if we have to give up some of the QoL items - just to be competitive w/ other airlines. Otherwise, we stagnate. And that wonderful flexibility is lessened by the fact that there are no upgrades, there's no open time and PAF is a desperate measure in the 11th hour that requires guys to be online 24/7 just to get it. Rates are king in this world.
TBH, there really should be no reason why we can't have the rates AND the flexibility. Imagine a AA pilot leaving for F9...
A competent CEO could manage this. Hell, he'd be PROUD to.
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