How long for a contract?
08-03-2024 | 06:25 PM
#601
On Reserve
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
From: A320 FO
We’re talking about pilot pay. The economics of CEO comp have nothing to do with this discussion. It’s a different market with different forces at work and I’m not going to make this thread any more unserious than it’s already become by humoring that point.
We all want to maximize our comp. And you know that carping about “the same pay rate as everyone else in the industry” is a meaningless tagline because you’re ignoring the Airbus pilots who make less than us. You’re cherry picking DAL rates without acknowledging that their RASM is something like almost twice ours. And you’re ignoring the fact that even Spirit rates are arguably unsupportable given the available evidence.
We’ve got to get smarter than this about making our case.
We all want to maximize our comp. And you know that carping about “the same pay rate as everyone else in the industry” is a meaningless tagline because you’re ignoring the Airbus pilots who make less than us. You’re cherry picking DAL rates without acknowledging that their RASM is something like almost twice ours. And you’re ignoring the fact that even Spirit rates are arguably unsupportable given the available evidence.
We’ve got to get smarter than this about making our case.
08-03-2024 | 08:38 PM
#602
Almost there
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,011
Likes: 144
It's not our problem if the company isn't making enough money to pay us industry standard. If they can't afford it they can change their model or go bankrupt and let us be bought by a bigger fish. They don't get an Airbus pilot discount because their revenue is less.
Read Hard Landing if you haven’t.
https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Landing-Contest-Profits-Airlines/dp/0812928350
There are actually quite a few similarities happening now with past history. It’s a good read for the aviation enthusiast.
08-03-2024 | 10:37 PM
#603
On Reserve
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
It's not our problem if the company isn't making enough money to pay us industry standard. If they can't afford it they can change their model or go bankrupt and let us be bought by a bigger fish. They don't get an Airbus pilot discount because their revenue is less.
amen 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
08-04-2024 | 06:23 AM
#604
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 267
Likes: 8
It's not our problem if the company isn't making enough money to pay us industry standard. If they can't afford it they can change their model or go bankrupt and let us be bought by a bigger fish. They don't get an Airbus pilot discount because their revenue is less.
And Stayontarget is right. It’s absolutely our problem if the company takes on obligations it can’t afford. See, for example, Spirit and the legions of other carriers that have preceded it into the dustbin of history.
You can decide to ignore all that but the people doing the actual negotiating can’t and won’t. There’s no way the union is going into negotiations spouting unsupported nonsense like “no discount Airbus pilots” and “it’s not our problem you won’t give us what we want.” These are serious discussions between serious people and unsupportable taglines don’t move the ball.
08-04-2024 | 06:41 AM
#605
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 793
Likes: 64
Yes they do and they get more than they need. That’s why there are so many CJOs waiting on class dates. You cant just make stuff up like that.
And Stayontarget is right. It’s absolutely our problem if the company takes on obligations it can’t afford. See, for example, Spirit and the legions of other carriers that have preceded it into the dustbin of history.
You can decide to ignore all that but the people doing the actual negotiating can’t and won’t. There’s no way the union is going into negotiations spouting unsupported nonsense like “no discount Airbus pilots” and “it’s not our problem you won’t give us what we want.” These are serious discussions between serious people and unsupportable taglines don’t move the ball.
And Stayontarget is right. It’s absolutely our problem if the company takes on obligations it can’t afford. See, for example, Spirit and the legions of other carriers that have preceded it into the dustbin of history.
You can decide to ignore all that but the people doing the actual negotiating can’t and won’t. There’s no way the union is going into negotiations spouting unsupported nonsense like “no discount Airbus pilots” and “it’s not our problem you won’t give us what we want.” These are serious discussions between serious people and unsupportable taglines don’t move the ball.
Excellent points.
We will not get anything from an unsuccessful airline.
08-04-2024 | 10:28 AM
#606
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 494
Likes: 3
The real question is- if you truly believe we aren't on par with legacy pilots, why are you still here? And don't say it's because it's because you have too much time on property.
If we aren't going to have TOTAL compensation (all areas of the contract) of our legacy counterparts, then the math is probably more favorable to leave. Between the immediate upgrades, the retirements, the projected growth plans, GS, open time, base availability, commuting, LCR, etc. financially I'd probably make more sense to go.
It's like the people who say this company/model isn't going to last. Why are you still here? If we're going out of business you should've left two years ago.
If we aren't going to have TOTAL compensation (all areas of the contract) of our legacy counterparts, then the math is probably more favorable to leave. Between the immediate upgrades, the retirements, the projected growth plans, GS, open time, base availability, commuting, LCR, etc. financially I'd probably make more sense to go.
It's like the people who say this company/model isn't going to last. Why are you still here? If we're going out of business you should've left two years ago.
08-04-2024 | 01:13 PM
#607
That/It/Thang
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 3,502
Likes: 370
The real question is- if you truly believe we aren't on par with legacy pilots, why are you still here? And don't say it's because it's because you have too much time on property.
If we aren't going to have TOTAL compensation (all areas of the contract) of our legacy counterparts, then the math is probably more favorable to leave. Between the immediate upgrades, the retirements, the projected growth plans, GS, open time, base availability, commuting, LCR, etc. financially I'd probably make more sense to go.
It's like the people who say this company/model isn't going to last. Why are you still here? If we're going out of business you should've left two years ago.
If we aren't going to have TOTAL compensation (all areas of the contract) of our legacy counterparts, then the math is probably more favorable to leave. Between the immediate upgrades, the retirements, the projected growth plans, GS, open time, base availability, commuting, LCR, etc. financially I'd probably make more sense to go.
It's like the people who say this company/model isn't going to last. Why are you still here? If we're going out of business you should've left two years ago.
08-04-2024 | 02:26 PM
#610
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 463
Likes: 58
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