What’s the plan?
08-24-2023, 06:34 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2022
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 295
What’s the plan?
It was only last November when I started there seemed to be excitement about the direction of Frontier. Lots of goals and growth, upgrades, etc. Now there doesn’t seem to be any direction at all. What happened?? Was it the failed spirit merger that took the wind out of our sails? Is the plan to drive the airline into the ground? I can’t imagine any financial benefit to that. Do they want the government to shut us down because our business practices are cruel and unusual punishment to passengers? How can BB still have a job? There must be a grand plan. Maybe Indigo just wants us off the books and they are driving the value so low that someone will have to buy us. I just want someone at the helm that cares and would be embarrassed at the current condition of Frontier.
08-24-2023, 07:31 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Lineholder
Posts: 1,356
Originally Posted by Dragonslayer69
It was only last November when I started there seemed to be excitement about the direction of Frontier. Lots of goals and growth, upgrades, etc. Now there doesn’t seem to be any direction at all. What happened?? Was it the failed spirit merger that took the wind out of our sails? Is the plan to drive the airline into the ground? I can’t imagine any financial benefit to that. Do they want the government to shut us down because our business practices are cruel and unusual punishment to passengers? How can BB still have a job? There must be a grand plan. Maybe Indigo just wants us off the books and they are driving the value so low that someone will have to buy us. I just want someone at the helm that cares and would be embarrassed at the current condition of Frontier.
08-24-2023, 07:46 AM
#3
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2022
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 295
Originally Posted by dracir1
Not sure if you’re honestly sincere or this is a troll post as there plenty of other threads b!tchin about this place. Why start a new thread?
08-24-2023, 08:13 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Lineholder
Posts: 1,356
Originally Posted by Dragonslayer69
Are there threads about the motivation for driving the company into the ground? Because, “money” definitely ain’t cutting it.
Which is what is being discussed in all the other threads.
Nvm. Carry on with your thread since it seems somewhat important to you…
08-24-2023, 08:39 AM
#5
Almost there
Joined APC: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,093
Originally Posted by Dragonslayer69
It was only last November when I started there seemed to be excitement about the direction of Frontier. Lots of goals and growth, upgrades, etc. Now there doesn’t seem to be any direction at all. What happened?? Was it the failed spirit merger that took the wind out of our sails? Is the plan to drive the airline into the ground? I can’t imagine any financial benefit to that. Do they want the government to shut us down because our business practices are cruel and unusual punishment to passengers? How can BB still have a job? There must be a grand plan. Maybe Indigo just wants us off the books and they are driving the value so low that someone will have to buy us. I just want someone at the helm that cares and would be embarrassed at the current condition of Frontier.
Im gonna guess it wasn’t the sterling reputation and incredible on time performance. We never had that. Maybe the animals tails and seat pitch but I doubt that too.
Was it the quick upgrade time? Still have that. We are a witches tit away from 2 year upgrade.
Was it the airplane growth? Still have that. Just took three brand new airplanes in 6 days. “Oh they could cancel orders and send them to Volaris, Wizz, Jet Smart…” Not sure if that’s possible for 1 and 2 we extended the lease of two aircraft we didn’t have to. We’re going the opposite direction of that negative thought pattern.
Was it the base location? Certain bases seem more secure than others. Your situation may differ.
Was it the money? Yup we are one of the lowest paid when you got here and we still are. Pretty happy we are the last to go get a contract and not the first. If we had ended with spirit rates and then seen these massive gains that would have been devastating.
Is it the QOL? Did something change? Nope. In fact our companies failures have made me more money with statistically 0% QOL losses. Our attrition should have made your life much better pretty quickly.
Is it our seniority growth? Still growing very rapidly. I would argue we have very close to the fastest seniority progression in the industry right now. Hired today, 30 in front quit and 55 hired behind. Furlough protection.
Is it company growth? They have had trouble scaling the operation and their ill advised incentive program keeps us informed about their failures. Yet in Jan 22 we had 37000 block hours for the month and this month we have 48000. 23% increase in 18 months. Holy smokes! No wonder they can’t keep up.
Was it the company profit? 9.7% was right in the middle of the pack and beat out half of our direct competitors. I don’t fully understand the negativity behind that profit when there are plenty of articles explaining the cause. To me it looks like we are on the backside of the domestic travel wave just as cargo has receded tremendously I would expect pax to slow as well. There are troubling reports brewing with CC debt, Housing costs, defaults on car loans, ect. Im saving my money to invest when the time is right but you do you.
The operation is in the pits no doubt. They over extended themselves and we are seeing the consequences. But we didn’t see a meltdown like two of our competitors and BB has even admitted the failures in his own way. No CEO will come out and admit it unless there’s severe pressure after they take a private jet when the company collapsed or leave a million stranded. Cough. The problem is it takes six months to make the needed changes since the schedules are built ahead of time.
TL
R We have problems. They can be overcome. Fly the contract, get paid, go home, and enjoy your life.
08-24-2023, 08:45 AM
#6
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2023
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by Stayontarget
You are looking too hard into the negatives and beating yourself up over the echo chamber of this Debbie downer forum. Let’s take a step back and do some self reflection with a simple question. Why did YOU come to Frontier?
Im gonna guess it wasn’t the sterling reputation and incredible on time performance. We never had that. Maybe the animals tails and seat pitch but I doubt that too.
Was it the quick upgrade time? Still have that. We are a witches tit away from 2 year upgrade.
Was it the airplane growth? Still have that. Just took three brand new airplanes in 6 days. “Oh they could cancel orders and send them to Volaris, Wizz, Jet Smart…” Not sure if that’s possible for 1 and 2 we extended the lease of two aircraft we didn’t have to. We’re going the opposite direction of that negative thought pattern.
Was it the base location? Certain bases seem more secure than others. Your situation may differ.
Was it the money? Yup we are one of the lowest paid when you got here and we still are. Pretty happy we are the last to go get a contract and not the first. If we had ended with spirit rates and then seen these massive gains that would have been devastating.
Is it the QOL? Did something change? Nope. In fact our companies failures have made me more money with statistically 0% QOL losses. Our attrition should have made your life much better pretty quickly.
Is it our seniority growth? Still growing very rapidly. I would argue we have very close to the fastest seniority progression in the industry right now. Hired today, 30 in front quit and 55 hired behind. Furlough protection.
Is it company growth? They have had trouble scaling the operation and their ill advised incentive program keeps us informed about their failures. Yet in Jan 22 we had 37000 block hours for the month and this month we have 48000. 23% increase in 18 months. Holy smokes! No wonder they can’t keep up.
Was it the company profit? 9.7% was right in the middle of the pack and beat out half of our direct competitors. I don’t fully understand the negativity behind that profit when there are plenty of articles explaining the cause. To me it looks like we are on the backside of the domestic travel wave just as cargo has receded tremendously I would expect pax to slow as well. There are troubling reports brewing with CC debt, Housing costs, defaults on car loans, ect. Im saving my money to invest when the time is right but you do you.
The operation is in the pits no doubt. They over extended themselves and we are seeing the consequences. But we didn’t see a meltdown like two of our competitors and BB has even admitted the failures in his own way. No CEO will come out and admit it unless there’s severe pressure after they take a private jet when the company collapsed or leave a million stranded. Cough. The problem is it takes six months to make the needed changes since the schedules are built ahead of time.
TLR We have problems. They can be overcome. Fly the contract, get paid, go home, and enjoy your life.
Im gonna guess it wasn’t the sterling reputation and incredible on time performance. We never had that. Maybe the animals tails and seat pitch but I doubt that too.
Was it the quick upgrade time? Still have that. We are a witches tit away from 2 year upgrade.
Was it the airplane growth? Still have that. Just took three brand new airplanes in 6 days. “Oh they could cancel orders and send them to Volaris, Wizz, Jet Smart…” Not sure if that’s possible for 1 and 2 we extended the lease of two aircraft we didn’t have to. We’re going the opposite direction of that negative thought pattern.
Was it the base location? Certain bases seem more secure than others. Your situation may differ.
Was it the money? Yup we are one of the lowest paid when you got here and we still are. Pretty happy we are the last to go get a contract and not the first. If we had ended with spirit rates and then seen these massive gains that would have been devastating.
Is it the QOL? Did something change? Nope. In fact our companies failures have made me more money with statistically 0% QOL losses. Our attrition should have made your life much better pretty quickly.
Is it our seniority growth? Still growing very rapidly. I would argue we have very close to the fastest seniority progression in the industry right now. Hired today, 30 in front quit and 55 hired behind. Furlough protection.
Is it company growth? They have had trouble scaling the operation and their ill advised incentive program keeps us informed about their failures. Yet in Jan 22 we had 37000 block hours for the month and this month we have 48000. 23% increase in 18 months. Holy smokes! No wonder they can’t keep up.
Was it the company profit? 9.7% was right in the middle of the pack and beat out half of our direct competitors. I don’t fully understand the negativity behind that profit when there are plenty of articles explaining the cause. To me it looks like we are on the backside of the domestic travel wave just as cargo has receded tremendously I would expect pax to slow as well. There are troubling reports brewing with CC debt, Housing costs, defaults on car loans, ect. Im saving my money to invest when the time is right but you do you.
The operation is in the pits no doubt. They over extended themselves and we are seeing the consequences. But we didn’t see a meltdown like two of our competitors and BB has even admitted the failures in his own way. No CEO will come out and admit it unless there’s severe pressure after they take a private jet when the company collapsed or leave a million stranded. Cough. The problem is it takes six months to make the needed changes since the schedules are built ahead of time.
TL
R We have problems. They can be overcome. Fly the contract, get paid, go home, and enjoy your life.
08-24-2023, 09:20 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2022
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 295
Sorry. It’s just difficult when pilots have to give their best simply not bend an airplane, kill people, maintain their certificate and stay marketable and there is no return from the company. I get it. I have to learn professional apathy and just hope I make it to retirement. I’m still very new here but have been around a good while. It’s an adjustment.
08-24-2023, 10:13 AM
#8
Last To Know First To Go
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 605
Originally Posted by Stayontarget
You are looking too hard into the negatives and beating yourself up over the echo chamber of this Debbie downer forum. Let’s take a step back and do some self reflection with a simple question. Why did YOU come to Frontier?
Im gonna guess it wasn’t the sterling reputation and incredible on time performance. We never had that. Maybe the animals tails and seat pitch but I doubt that too.
Was it the quick upgrade time? Still have that. We are a witches tit away from 2 year upgrade.
Was it the airplane growth? Still have that. Just took three brand new airplanes in 6 days. “Oh they could cancel orders and send them to Volaris, Wizz, Jet Smart…” Not sure if that’s possible for 1 and 2 we extended the lease of two aircraft we didn’t have to. We’re going the opposite direction of that negative thought pattern.
Was it the base location? Certain bases seem more secure than others. Your situation may differ.
Was it the money? Yup we are one of the lowest paid when you got here and we still are. Pretty happy we are the last to go get a contract and not the first. If we had ended with spirit rates and then seen these massive gains that would have been devastating.
Is it the QOL? Did something change? Nope. In fact our companies failures have made me more money with statistically 0% QOL losses. Our attrition should have made your life much better pretty quickly.
Is it our seniority growth? Still growing very rapidly. I would argue we have very close to the fastest seniority progression in the industry right now. Hired today, 30 in front quit and 55 hired behind. Furlough protection.
Is it company growth? They have had trouble scaling the operation and their ill advised incentive program keeps us informed about their failures. Yet in Jan 22 we had 37000 block hours for the month and this month we have 48000. 23% increase in 18 months. Holy smokes! No wonder they can’t keep up.
Was it the company profit? 9.7% was right in the middle of the pack and beat out half of our direct competitors. I don’t fully understand the negativity behind that profit when there are plenty of articles explaining the cause. To me it looks like we are on the backside of the domestic travel wave just as cargo has receded tremendously I would expect pax to slow as well. There are troubling reports brewing with CC debt, Housing costs, defaults on car loans, ect. Im saving my money to invest when the time is right but you do you.
The operation is in the pits no doubt. They over extended themselves and we are seeing the consequences. But we didn’t see a meltdown like two of our competitors and BB has even admitted the failures in his own way. No CEO will come out and admit it unless there’s severe pressure after they take a private jet when the company collapsed or leave a million stranded. Cough. The problem is it takes six months to make the needed changes since the schedules are built ahead of time.
TLR We have problems. They can be overcome. Fly the contract, get paid, go home, and enjoy your life.
Im gonna guess it wasn’t the sterling reputation and incredible on time performance. We never had that. Maybe the animals tails and seat pitch but I doubt that too.
Was it the quick upgrade time? Still have that. We are a witches tit away from 2 year upgrade.
Was it the airplane growth? Still have that. Just took three brand new airplanes in 6 days. “Oh they could cancel orders and send them to Volaris, Wizz, Jet Smart…” Not sure if that’s possible for 1 and 2 we extended the lease of two aircraft we didn’t have to. We’re going the opposite direction of that negative thought pattern.
Was it the base location? Certain bases seem more secure than others. Your situation may differ.
Was it the money? Yup we are one of the lowest paid when you got here and we still are. Pretty happy we are the last to go get a contract and not the first. If we had ended with spirit rates and then seen these massive gains that would have been devastating.
Is it the QOL? Did something change? Nope. In fact our companies failures have made me more money with statistically 0% QOL losses. Our attrition should have made your life much better pretty quickly.
Is it our seniority growth? Still growing very rapidly. I would argue we have very close to the fastest seniority progression in the industry right now. Hired today, 30 in front quit and 55 hired behind. Furlough protection.
Is it company growth? They have had trouble scaling the operation and their ill advised incentive program keeps us informed about their failures. Yet in Jan 22 we had 37000 block hours for the month and this month we have 48000. 23% increase in 18 months. Holy smokes! No wonder they can’t keep up.
Was it the company profit? 9.7% was right in the middle of the pack and beat out half of our direct competitors. I don’t fully understand the negativity behind that profit when there are plenty of articles explaining the cause. To me it looks like we are on the backside of the domestic travel wave just as cargo has receded tremendously I would expect pax to slow as well. There are troubling reports brewing with CC debt, Housing costs, defaults on car loans, ect. Im saving my money to invest when the time is right but you do you.
The operation is in the pits no doubt. They over extended themselves and we are seeing the consequences. But we didn’t see a meltdown like two of our competitors and BB has even admitted the failures in his own way. No CEO will come out and admit it unless there’s severe pressure after they take a private jet when the company collapsed or leave a million stranded. Cough. The problem is it takes six months to make the needed changes since the schedules are built ahead of time.
TL
R We have problems. They can be overcome. Fly the contract, get paid, go home, and enjoy your life.Thanks!!!
08-24-2023, 11:11 AM
#9
Almost there
Joined APC: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,093
Originally Posted by Dragonslayer69
Sorry. It’s just difficult when pilots have to give their best simply not bend an airplane, kill people, maintain their certificate and stay marketable and there is no return from the company. I get it. I have to learn professional apathy and just hope I make it to retirement. I’m still very new here but have been around a good while. It’s an adjustment.
08-24-2023, 11:24 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: 1900D CA
Posts: 3,394
Originally Posted by Dragonslayer69
Sorry. It’s just difficult when pilots have to give their best simply not bend an airplane, kill people, maintain their certificate and stay marketable and there is no return from the company. I get it. I have to learn professional apathy and just hope I make it to retirement. I’m still very new here but have been around a good while. It’s an adjustment.
I think that any of the mysterious things going on here are just incompetence. Biffle is doing his "best" and it's not that great. It's not terrible either. We are growing, profitable and mostly meltdown free.
Running an airline is hard. Just take a look at the massive Southwest meltdown over Christmas. It was truly epic.
You also have to remember that Frontiers entire business model is to keep costs down. That's pretty much it. So every single decision that gets made by management is always cost driven. Frontier is never going to run like Delta. Ever.
You mentioned that you do your job well and get no return from the company. I hear that kind of thing a lot. And I get it, but remember, you work for a pay check, the 15% to your 401k and the health insurance. That's it. If you are looking for more, I'm sorry. You work for $ that's it.
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