I say Shreveport

 

You forgot COS. Also if you remember way back when it was to be A330s out of MSY... http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ma...-frontier.html

 

Please, please reinstate the TYS/MDW flight or I'll never get to use my Animal Action add on points.........Shreveport? Gee you can hang at Bossier City.

 

I threw this up here a few days ago and then pulled it back down because I felt like I ought to get permission from the guy who wrote it first.

But he's taking too long to answer, and it's too good not to share.

So... Here it is... I don't think he would mind.

This is a PM I received from a Spirit CA, one of many people I sought advice from when I was considering coming to Frontier. Revisiting his PM some 15 months later, I find it uncanny how accurate his predictions were.


March 2, 2014

How'd the interview go?

I assume you've interviewed by now. If not, well, you asked me my thoughts on Frontier, so, here they are:

- lots of upside, Indigo will probably try to use the same model they did with Spirit, reduce costs, go ULCC, grow the company to profitability, then cash out. Getting on now, before Frontier is the 'trendy' place to apply, could lead to the left seat of the Airbus and good seniority for the rest of your career.
- near term down-side, Bill Franke makes JO look like a cream puff. He made Spirit strike to get a contract that is, frankly, not that impressive. He's going to bend the Frontier pilots over a barrel - they are so excited to be out from under the Republic/Bedford insanity (merging a regional with an Airbus operator and giving the senior regional guys seniority over the FO's - that was crazy - all the FO's were already regional Captain guys, Frontier is the 'next step', possibly a career airline), they don't seem to understand that Franke and Indigo are going to save the company by making their lives miserable, or at least that's what Franke did to America West and Spirit. Frontier's pilot group has no idea who they're dealing with - but it'll still be better than Mesa!
- Frontier will have to differentiate themselves from the competition. United owns Denver, and Southwest went from not operating in Denver to bigger than Frontier in Denver in just 2 years. Denver is an expensive airport to operate out of, so it will be difficult for Frontier to keep their current 'Denver hub' strategy, since they're going up against one of the most successful and consistently profitable airlines ever (Southwest) and the largest airline in the world, with deep pockets (United). Meantime, Spirit has already established themselves as 'the ULCC' of the US. I see Frontier moving away from being so 'Denver-centric', doing more east coast flying, and sharing the ULCC market with Spirit. Just like there's room for both easyJet and Ryan Air in Europe, there should be room for 2 ULCC in the US too. Indigo has learned how to make ULCC's work, and may now create the 'perfect ULCC', since they're on their 3rd go-around. 3rd times a charm, right? Or maybe Frontier merges with jetBlue, Spirit, or someone else. Who knows?
- As US Airways merges with American, PHX and PHL will likely lose service to LAX and JFK (respectively). I see a vacuum to fill in those cities, and Frontier could be the one to grab some of each of those markets if Indigo can move quickly. I'm sure you'd like a PHX base, and it would go junior, since most Frontier guys live in DEN now.

Overall, I see it as a good opportunity for a regional guy. You'll likely never be the highest paid Airbus guy in the US, but you will almost certainly have a better future than hitching your wagon to Mesa. Regional jets are a dying business model, and its insane that you have over a decade of time at a regional and can hardly hold the left seat. That is horrible career progression - and, if you don't go to Frontier, I hope you use it as motivation to leave to somewhere else. I still think you could get some pull at AA. Even if Frontier tanks, your experience in an Airbus will instantly make you more qualified for other 'career' jobs than your current resume, as well as qualify you for ex-pat work like Emirates or contract work on Airbus equipment in Asia - if that's something you'd consider. An Airbus type is worth $10K plus by itself.

Good luck to you, at Frontier, AA, or even at Mesa.

 

Sulk (or any Frontier guy in the know), what do you guys have for scope/merger/codeshare protection?

Thanks

 

I'm not knowledgable on this stuff, but just looking at the CBA, I'm reading this: {in a nutshell and in my own words...}

SCOPE:

1.) All flying must be done by Frontier pilots on one list.

2.) No alter ego airlines allowed.

3.) Code share agreements ARE allowed.

4.) Company can lease or contract out flying, for a limited time period, if necessary, and the company doesn't have the resources/assets/staffing to accomplish it in house.

MERGER:

"Integration shall be in accordance with Sections 2, 3, and 13 of the Labor Protective Provisions specified by the Civil Aeronautics Board in the Allegheny-Mohawk merger ("Allegheny- Mohawk LPP's")."

^^^^ What this means, I have no idea. ^^^^

There is also some language about the company meeting with the association to construct a 'possible fence' in the event of a substantial acquisition - by or of - another company.

Thats all I got putzin - hopefully some more guys will chime in.

 

Sulkair is right about what our contract (to be opened in March 2016) says today. I know I'll take flack for this so ya'll bugger off in advance.

Scope isn't worth the paper it's written on if management can have codeshare. Our contract allowed codeshare, and still does - remember we're working under a concessionary contract but in 2008 I think SWAPA was the only pilot group that didn't allow codesharing. RAH bought Midwest, and could have just as easily codeshared - putting our flying on them and Republic's 190s/C-series, furloughing us if they had wanted. They went with the lowest CASM option and we're still around, albeit without scope per se.

"4.) Company can lease or contract out flying, for a limited time period, if necessary, and the company doesn't have the resources/assets/staffing to accomplish it in house."

The only times this provision was used was when we had massive aircraft damage after hail storms at our only hub (at the time), and we wet leased from Miami Air and someone else (I don't remember who). VERY expensive way for the company to go and the language says they can't furlough while doing that.

I won't get into the nitnoid details of who did what to whom in bankruptcy, but we aren't stupid, and are still here to fight another day.

The "...Sections 2, 3, and 13 of the Labor Protective Provisions specified by the Civil Aeronautics Board in the Allegheny-Mohawk merger ("Allegheny- Mohawk LPP's")..." essentially mean that you must negotiate then arbitrate seniority in the event of a merger / buy-out. Section 3 says you can come up with an alternative dispute resolution process , like adding mediation before arbitration, if the parties (management is a party too per the LPPs) are agreeable. It's boilerplate in almost every airline contract I've ever seen.

 

This is great information. Thank you for sharing. I have (presumably) a lot of the same questions that you had, and I'm glad someone with experience in the ULCC industry was able to shed some light on the subject. I'm thinking about applying at Frontier, but I live, and have an AF Reserve gig on the east coast and I'm not sure if a move to Colorado is worth it for me at this point, and commuting is almost definitely out of the question. Thoughts?

 

I'd wait for the new domicile announcement. May be close to Wrightstown; but who knows?

 

I failed to mention that I really, REALLY want to move back to Colorado, but I just don't know if I can justify the move.