They'll learn.

 

You do know that it would be far more effective toward getting a contract if current pilots voted with their feet and quit. That would really get managements attention. Perhaps some of the posters here could be the first to make a statement!

 

You are asking way to much! It’s easier to blame the new guy.

 

Trying to.

 

You ever consider that you quitting is as easy as telling a new hire to stay at their ****ty regional airline?

 

Todd,

This is more of a respect issue for lots of us here. Our Union, ALPA respectfully requested pilots to not come here until we have a new contract. (I am guessing) That you chose to “get yours” and by doing so disrespected the entire group. You now may be facing some pushback from those you are working with and feel they are disrespecting you now by giving you crap about your seniority number/date.
Let me tell you this. Respect given is respect earned. I have mad respect for those that are willing to help the entire group here by choosing to wait this out.... not so much for those that wouldn’t or couldn’t wait. If it bothers you that much you can just look out the window when we fly together.

Nacho

 

I love your kind, so ignorant and think that is actually a justifiable argument.

Its not, it is absolutely different. I am already here, I have decent seniority. Where I am now, how would it make sense to leave to "where ever I can get hired." Or to simply just quit and hope I find something before money runs out and the family can't eat? I am open to a lot of possibilities, not just the DL,UL,AA...but to leave just to tell Frontier to F off without a plan to support my family, that is nonsensical. Could I go to a regional? Sure...but then I'd be worse off then the guy already there wanting to come here. I should have never come here in the first place, but I'm here now, trying to make it a better place in the event I don't get out.

On the other hand somebody already at a regional looking to come to Frontier. Is Frontier better in the long run, absolutely. Would it be even better if you waited, you bet. Is it better now...not really, I liked it here overall initially, at this point though it was better at my regional. The regional guy looking to come here will take a PAY CUT, be out thousands in additional expenses during training that are not covered, most regionals are giving bonuses so the pay cut is even larger. Already has seniority where they are and would be giving that up to likely commute which you mention in a different thread as a reason to leave a regional, or at least be badly abused on reserve all over again after finishing that mess with their regional. Oh and then there is everything else wrong with Frontier right now with management, AND the pilots and ALPA are all pleading you not to come. That you are telling each pilot here for your entire time at this airline with that well recognizable employee number that you are in it for you, you don't give a F about the other pilots here, and you don't care about what is required to better the group.

So no, just quitting is not the same as waiting a few months while those of us here fix the situation so that you can then come and reap the rewards, and yes if nobody came to class for a few months it would absolutely be fixed.

Its not blaming the new hires for our predicament, its recognizing that despite all that is going on and being said, these people just don't care, and those aren't the kind of people anybody wants in their life.

 

Nearly two years ago when I went to a job fair, Frontier was not on my list of airlines I was targeting. Frontier wasn't even in my vocabulary. Like many, I was looking at the legacy carriers along with SWA and AK due to their West coast bases.
As I was walking down the aisle, I started talking to a couple of the PILOTS at the Frontier booth. They weren't company HR or non-pilot recruiters, they were Frontier line pilots. It was this conversation that the following points were made:
1. Contract sucked, but a new contract would be ratified within 6-9 months.
2. Las Vegas was in the works as a new pilot base.
3. A tight-nit pilot group with only 1100 on the rolls vs 1000s at the other majors.
4. The "wave" of hiring at Frontier was just beginning and the time to come was NOW.
5. Proposed new aircraft and expansion with significant cash reserves insured longevity and security.

The point here is that I wasn't sold on Frontier by some company recruiting video or company HR puke, it was the excitement of Frontier pilots. I get the frustration of the current pilot group with the delays Indigo has played in the negotiations. They are the masters of manipulation and have played their hand well. It is business and all about the mighty dollar.
Sure, look at my employee number and judge me for being here. I came to Frontier because of the pilot group and the potential for growth and opportunity for me and my family. I NEVER spoke to a Frontier management or HR employee until I came to INDOC. This forum and ALPA at the time were NOT saying anything about not coming here. That came about this past summer after the April negotiations stalemate and the lawsuit.
Through all the preparation and expenses it took to get hired, the one piece of advice I remember most was "take the first CJO offered by a major airline that has a domicile near where you want to live." That's exactly what I did. Now certain Frontier pilots want to chastise me and others like me for making the same decision?

So be it....

 

IMO the "labeled" employee numbers are later than that. Definitely by August this year the info was widespread enough and easy to find. Of course it's just my opinion, but I think many see a line closer to July/August as the time when "you should have known better"

 

Contract late??? Thank a 428.