Excargodog

Not talking about year two, I'm talking about the starting pay of $39 an hour under the current CBA and not much more under the new proposal.



Numerous posters here have gleefully explained how they didn't want to "waste" negotiating capital on new hires because it was up to management to do whatever they needed to recruit them, they'd rather the limited pot of money that was negotiable be reserved for those already aboard.


"At the companies discretion" really means that you (as a pilot group) don't really care if the company screws your fellow pilots by paying them less than the average 1st year regional FO is currently making, because it doesn't affect you. Well those people have families of their own and careers they want to further too.





When you have your MECs intentionally negotiate for wages for the new hires that are below the payscales of the regional jobs they are leaving, either to put pressure on management or to avoid spending "negotiating capital' on their first year wages, you are screwing them over every bit as much as you think management is screwing you over. To do that and to then tell them that they shouldn't even apply until a contract is in place - for the good of the rest of you - is incredibly cynical.


If you are going to treat your new hires like they have less worth to you than they had to their previous employers while asking that they put their career advancement on hold for the sake of pilot unity they have every right to laugh in your faces and do what's best for them and theirs.



The basis of unionism is UNITY. Screwing over your junior people with substandard first year pay because you want all the money that's available to go to those who are already working there is not the way to build unity. It's no different than the management screwing the rest of you over to the maximum extant they can get away with.



You want unity? Treat your new hires as valuable additions to your team, not as sacrificial pawns between you and management.



But castigating them for wanting to further their careers and then expecting them to do you a favor by holding off putting in their applications? That just makes you look selfish and entitled. And weasel-worded statements like "but if I remember right we agreed “at the companies discretion” they can raise it up to 90% of year 2 pay."

You know that isn't right. You wouldn't phrase it that way if you didn't. You are trying to pretend you aren't complicit in screwing the first year FOs but who do you think you are trying to kid? You KNOW that's no way to treat these people. And if that's the way the pilot group treats their own from day one, it's no wonder the unity is lacking. Your telling them from the get-go that it's every man for himself.

Notarealpilot

As far as I’m concerned there is not a single regional paying FOs more than $56 an hour first year so it’s acutally way higher than regional FO pay. If you want to count bonuses that’s fine and when F9 can’t hire the 100s of regional FOs that will be flocking to here with a new contract I’m sure they will have a signing bonus as well.

upup89

I imagine the 1st year FO pay may be raised to 98.5 percent of 2nd year FO pay at the companies discretion caveat will be in there.

SFA320

Man, Excargo I now know why I had you on my ingnore list. Your condescending attitude is more than I can stomach. Why don’t you come down off your high horse and look at reality. Most regional captains will take a pay cut no matter where they go. Especially if they have been at their regionals for 5+ years. I remember when I started at my regional just a little over 5 years ago, I flew with over 15 captains that had recently turned down legacy jobs because of the steep pay cut. What are you saying on the UPS, FEDEX, and Hawaiian forums? Man they must hate new hires more than us!!! Well to be fair FEDEXs first year pay will be slightly higher than F9 if our AIP passes. I think “companies discretion” it not the best, but certainly not the worst. At least they have the dang option! UPS and Hawaiian don’t have that option as far as I’m aware. Geez even Delta doesn’t have that great of a deal for newbies for the first few months. Anyhow I have nothing else to say on the matter. Maybe I should just ingore you again.

Gary et al

Excargo responded? Yeah you should just ignore him...I'm surprised anybody see's his posts at this point.

SFA320

I removed him from my ignore list and I paid the price!

Excargodog

Your CURRENT Payscale is $39.00 an hour according to APC and I guarantee there are a LOT of regional FOs who have been starting at better than that in the last year or so, WITH bonuses. Republic has been $45 with a signing bonus of $17,500.

Now you can TRY to justify that, but it just makes you look silly. The pilot's group has played the new hire pay issue for their own purposes just as cynically as management has played the rest of the pilots and it's even more cynical to pretend any different. To do that to them and then make protestations that they are somehow being disloyal to the rest of the group by even putting in an application is pure chutzpah.

Worse yet, screwing your junior people is not a good way to instill unity and group loyalty.

Excargodog

One can, I suppose, IMAGINE anything.

But how long has it been $39 in your current CBA, and what have the REST of the pilots tried to do to raise it.

Seems to me you've sent the message to every new hire that you don't value them. That's a strange way to build group unity.

Excargodog

Perhaps you should since you are avoiding addressing the point - what this does to your group unity when you tell every single newcomer that you are n't going to "waste" any of your negotiating capital on him/her.

You can use ad hominem attacks on me, and you can justify a bad policy with other bad policies, but you haven't changed the fact - or even addressed it - that the other pilots have been complicit in allowing the management to screw the newbies. You can of course just ignore that fact, but that doesn't change the effect that has on the newbies. It simply tells them it's not really about fairness or group unity - not really - it's every man for himself. And you just live with the consequences of that initiation,

butthert

Sure we will vote this contract down and demand higher pay for new hires. Feel better?? Now get the hell off our forum