Frontier Hiring.
11-07-2018 | 05:39 AM
#9281
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 453
Likes: 0
Nearly two years ago when I went to a job fair, Frontier was not on my list of airlines I was targeting. Frontier wasn't even in my vocabulary. Like many, I was looking at the legacy carriers along with SWA and AK due to their West coast bases.
As I was walking down the aisle, I started talking to a couple of the PILOTS at the Frontier booth. They weren't company HR or non-pilot recruiters, they were Frontier line pilots. It was this conversation that the following points were made:
1. Contract sucked, but a new contract would be ratified within 6-9 months.
2. Las Vegas was in the works as a new pilot base.
3. A tight-nit pilot group with only 1100 on the rolls vs 1000s at the other majors.
4. The "wave" of hiring at Frontier was just beginning and the time to come was NOW.
5. Proposed new aircraft and expansion with significant cash reserves insured longevity and security.
The point here is that I wasn't sold on Frontier by some company recruiting video or company HR puke, it was the excitement of Frontier pilots. I get the frustration of the current pilot group with the delays Indigo has played in the negotiations. They are the masters of manipulation and have played their hand well. It is business and all about the mighty dollar.
Sure, look at my employee number and judge me for being here. I came to Frontier because of the pilot group and the potential for growth and opportunity for me and my family. I NEVER spoke to a Frontier management or HR employee until I came to INDOC. This forum and ALPA at the time were NOT saying anything about not coming here. That came about this past summer after the April negotiations stalemate and the lawsuit.
Through all the preparation and expenses it took to get hired, the one piece of advice I remember most was "take the first CJO offered by a major airline that has a domicile near where you want to live." That's exactly what I did. Now certain Frontier pilots want to chastise me and others like me for making the same decision?
So be it....
As I was walking down the aisle, I started talking to a couple of the PILOTS at the Frontier booth. They weren't company HR or non-pilot recruiters, they were Frontier line pilots. It was this conversation that the following points were made:
1. Contract sucked, but a new contract would be ratified within 6-9 months.
2. Las Vegas was in the works as a new pilot base.
3. A tight-nit pilot group with only 1100 on the rolls vs 1000s at the other majors.
4. The "wave" of hiring at Frontier was just beginning and the time to come was NOW.
5. Proposed new aircraft and expansion with significant cash reserves insured longevity and security.
The point here is that I wasn't sold on Frontier by some company recruiting video or company HR puke, it was the excitement of Frontier pilots. I get the frustration of the current pilot group with the delays Indigo has played in the negotiations. They are the masters of manipulation and have played their hand well. It is business and all about the mighty dollar.
Sure, look at my employee number and judge me for being here. I came to Frontier because of the pilot group and the potential for growth and opportunity for me and my family. I NEVER spoke to a Frontier management or HR employee until I came to INDOC. This forum and ALPA at the time were NOT saying anything about not coming here. That came about this past summer after the April negotiations stalemate and the lawsuit.
Through all the preparation and expenses it took to get hired, the one piece of advice I remember most was "take the first CJO offered by a major airline that has a domicile near where you want to live." That's exactly what I did. Now certain Frontier pilots want to chastise me and others like me for making the same decision?
So be it....
11-07-2018 | 06:33 AM
#9282
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
I tend to agree with Gary et al on this one. Like most of his comments he is spot on. 428XXX employees interviewed in Spring and Summer of 2018. They started in Sep' 2018 before the strike vote was released. Before the website was released. While pilots were still positive a contract was moving along. Let's fast forward to 429XXX. Vacations being canceled, ALPA videos saying steer clear. No contract movement. No negotiations scheduled. Union held job fairs to get pilots OUT! Why would anyone come here and accept that kind of treatment? Even the pilots on the seniority list are trying to get out.
It's kind of like saying you are ok with the way management is acting and treating the pilots. That or it's self serving. You decide.
It's kind of like saying you are ok with the way management is acting and treating the pilots. That or it's self serving. You decide.
11-07-2018 | 08:54 AM
#9283
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 0
I tend to agree with Gary et al on this one. Like most of his comments he is spot on. 428XXX employees interviewed in Spring and Summer of 2018. They started in Sep' 2018 before the strike vote was released. Before the website was released. While pilots were still positive a contract was moving along. Let's fast forward to 429XXX. Vacations being canceled, ALPA videos saying steer clear. No contract movement. No negotiations scheduled. Union held job fairs to get pilots OUT! Why would anyone come here and accept that kind of treatment? Even the pilots on the seniority list are trying to get out.
It's kind of like saying you are ok with the way management is acting and treating the pilots. That or it's self serving. You decide.
It's kind of like saying you are ok with the way management is acting and treating the pilots. That or it's self serving. You decide.
I’m just an outsider looking in so my opinion doesn’t really mean squat but why not chastise everyone who picked up open time? I don’t think it’s fair to single out a handful of people who were just trying to do what’s in their and their families best interests, whatever their reasons may be. I don’t think any of these guys and gals purposefully applied and accepted a job at Frontier to railroad your efforts. Most likely they had no idea what was going on. If anything they’ll probably say that the explosive growth, Denver base, and new contract in the pipeline made them want to apply. I agree that we as pilots should have a general understanding of what’s going on in the industry but the reality is some don’t.
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11-07-2018 | 10:18 AM
#9284
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
I’m just an outsider looking in so my opinion doesn’t really mean squat but why not chastise everyone who picked up open time? I don’t think it’s fair to single out a handful of people who were just trying to do what’s in their and their families best interests, whatever their reasons may be. I don’t think any of these guys and gals purposefully applied and accepted a job at Frontier to railroad your efforts. Most likely they had no idea what was going on. If anything they’ll probably say that the explosive growth, Denver base, and new contract in the pipeline made them want to apply. I agree that we as pilots should have a general understanding of what’s going on in the industry but the reality is some don’t.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Flying the contract is an entirely different subject.
11-07-2018 | 11:05 AM
#9285
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 566
Likes: 138
That sir, would be an illegal work action and not something I’m willing to discuss. I will say you have a valid argument, but it is clear the Union is unpleased with Frontier management and encouraging them to seek other options. If they choose to come here and not receive a warm welcome..... well.... what did they expect?? They shouldn’t complain when they have no vacation, money, pay for hotels in trading, sit reserve a year, or fly with a CA that is less than enthused with them. The info is all out there. If they didn’t research that, maybe they should look into a place before accepting a job there.
Flying the contract is an entirely different subject.
Flying the contract is an entirely different subject.
11-07-2018 | 11:06 AM
#9286
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,269
Likes: 0
That sir, would be an illegal work action and not something I’m willing to discuss. I will say you have a valid argument, but it is clear the Union is unpleased with Frontier management and encouraging them to seek other options. If they choose to come here and not receive a warm welcome..... well.... what did they expect?? They shouldn’t complain when they have no vacation, money, pay for hotels in training, sit reserve for 16 months, or fly with a CA that is less than enthused with them. The info is all out there. If they didn’t research that, maybe they should only blame themselves. Every pilot I’ve ever flown with researches a job before going there.
Flying the contract is an entirely different subject.
Flying the contract is an entirely different subject.
Whatever, to each their own, I get what you’re saying as well. In a perfect world hiring would stop during nasty negotiations but realistically that’s not going to happen. To throw around the scab word and start calling them “wounds” is a bit much but again just my opinion.
11-07-2018 | 01:30 PM
#9287
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 300
Likes: 2
So what’s the endgame here? You’re just going to be a D*** to anyone with a 428 number for the rest of your time at F9? Sounds like a great way to live your life.
Because of my base and seat I probably fly with more new hires than anyone. Most had a good reason for joining F9, ex. they were Lakers or ASA refugees. Would you rather they just sat home and collected unemployment?
Why don’t we keep our eyes on the real enemy. The company has been trying to wear us down for years and if the rumors are true will try to get us to pass a contract that is industry trailing in nearly every section unless you believe Spirit is our only peer group.
Every one of us needs to be on the same page going forward. There is nothing management loves more than a divided pilot group. Even if we eventually ratify an agreement do you truly believe Frontier is magically going to alter their behavior. We are a relatively small group yet we lead the industry in greivances by a WIDE margin. Every sentence in the new deal is going to be a battle at some point or another. We have to have each other’s backs. There are much bigger fish to fry.
Because of my base and seat I probably fly with more new hires than anyone. Most had a good reason for joining F9, ex. they were Lakers or ASA refugees. Would you rather they just sat home and collected unemployment?
Why don’t we keep our eyes on the real enemy. The company has been trying to wear us down for years and if the rumors are true will try to get us to pass a contract that is industry trailing in nearly every section unless you believe Spirit is our only peer group.
Every one of us needs to be on the same page going forward. There is nothing management loves more than a divided pilot group. Even if we eventually ratify an agreement do you truly believe Frontier is magically going to alter their behavior. We are a relatively small group yet we lead the industry in greivances by a WIDE margin. Every sentence in the new deal is going to be a battle at some point or another. We have to have each other’s backs. There are much bigger fish to fry.
11-07-2018 | 01:41 PM
#9288
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
I tend to agree with Gary et al on this one. Like most of his comments he is spot on. 428XXX employees interviewed in Spring and Summer of 2018. They started in Sep' 2018 before the strike vote was released. Before the website was released. While pilots were still positive a contract was moving along.
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