Not all SWA pilots paid for their types...some got it from previous employers, for free, and then got hired at SWA (Falcon, Miami Air, Casino Ex., US Navy, etc..) I do believe, and this is just me, that the policy of buying a type in order to just get an interview is detrimental to the proffession. Especially when the airline in question is "the place to be" in the here and now.
There are alot of people out there that spent all of the time and money to get the type rating in order to buy the interview and then they get shot down from SWA. I guess that is the way the ball bounces.

FO

 

"I do believe, and this is just me, that the policy of buying a type in order to just get an interview is detrimental to the proffession."


I've heard this argument for years. Tell me exactly how it is detrimental to the profession. Is requiring 1,000 turbine PIC detrimental too? What about a college degree? You paid for that. What about the ATP certificate? You paid for that. So you have a probelem with pilots paying for their own type rating but if another airline or the military pays for it it's OK?

The issue of PFT has been around since the early 90's. It did suck when commuter airlines required $10k to go through their training course but I've met guys who have done it and they are just fine. Knowone has blackballed them or even cares anymore.

S.B

 

Who is this Go Jet Airline? I am a little lost since I usually keep pretty good tabs on the industry news, but I am certainly not perfect at it. I was looking at their website and I understand that TSA Holdings owns them. I am familiar with TSA, but I'm not familiar with what got GoJets such a bad reputation with some of our fellow pilots. I am still building time with a 135 operator, and looking forward to getting an interview somewhere in the next 6 to 12 months. I have pretty much made up my mind that I want to avoid employers with bad reputations (i.e. Gulfstream) whether I disagree with their policies or not. If someone could fill me in on how Go Jets is off to such a negative start, I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
CJ

 

Sr. Barco...You stated in a previous post "we all had to pay for our 737 type" (paraphrased), and I was simply pointing out to you that not all of you had. As far explaining why I think that paying for your training is detrimental to the proffession, well that is my opinion. You obviously disagree because you paid for your training/type, and you now are a SWA FO. I think that it is comparing apples and oranges if you compare 1000 PIC requirement and a college degree to your having paid for a type rating. ATP rating comes for free if you upgrade at your current job, if you had been hired w/ a comm. ticket. As far as the college degree, you would have gotten that no matter what career path you have chosen.

Discuss

FO

 

4EVERFO--

I understand and respect your opinions. Thanks explaining them so tactfully! Take Care.

S.B.

 

I like it when we all get along!!

Cheers,

FO

 

There's a big difference (IMHO) between being required to pay to get a job and being asked to obtain a type rating to interview.

In the first case, the payment is a condition of employment -- pay the money and the job's yours. The job goes to the one who pays. In the SWA case, every single applicant made the choice to spend the money. Thus the hiring process is based on selecting among equal candidates.

I considered the 737 type rating as nothing more than a very expensive application fee.

 

For every 1 pilot that is hired at SWA, how many people do you suppose payed for a 737 type that don't get the job? From the folks I know that have attempted to go this route and have not been successful in being hired by SWA, getting a job elsewhere has been very difficult with the "SWA Type" on their ticket. The question will come up in future interviews, "Why do you have this type if you have never flown a 737?", and they will avoid you like the plague because they know what your long term goal is. The type rating itself is basically worthless without time in type. Does anyone know if SWA has hired a pilot in recent times without the type? If getting hired is contingent apon getting a type rating, and otherwise qualified applicants are turned down, I would say that SWA's policy does negatively impact the profession. I'll go out on a limb here and say that the majority of us would probably not like to see this develop into the industry norm, where every airline would expect us to pay for a type as a condition of employment. So please explain, how can you defend this policy?

 

Applicant A: 2000 Turbine PIC
B-737 Type Rating
College degree

Applicant B: 300 hrs SEL
Highschool GED

Who are you going to choose? How many applicants do you think there are for the annual +/- 600 jobs. SWA would have to quadruple the pilot hiring dept just to accomodate all the applicants that are FAA qualified to be in the right seat of a part 121 carrier. I believe that by acquiring a 737 type, just as a college degree, makes you as an applicant more attractive. I do agree though that it is wrong to offer a job with a condition of getting a type. One should become as marketable as possible and then go for the job. Once the company has offered the job, it should be without condition. I don't know the validity of the following, but I've heard that we pay much lower insurrance rates due to the fact that All SWA pilots are type rated. This probably is the best explanation as nobody starts class without one. The process has worked for a long time. With the vast volume of applicants out there, I think they should go back to making it an application requirement. The current process came about in the late 90's when the applicant pool was drying up. Prior to that, you had to have the type to apply. No doubt that if it has something to do with SWA, then it has something to do with economics. Anyone out there heard the insurrance explanation? ....Corl...anyone?

 

How about this

applicant A 8000 hrs total, 5000 jet PIC, 1000 Turboprop PIC, 500 turboprop SIC, 3 type ratings but no 737

applicant B 2500 hrs total, 500 PIC turboprop, 500 SIC turboprop, 2 type ratings 1 prop and 1 737 (0 jet time exect for the 737 sim)

Now realistically who is more qualified.

I can't believe that you think that it is worse to have an applicant get the type rating after he/she has been offered the job. At least they have a job rather than just the hope of getting an interview and then hoping that they are even offered the job. I know more people now that havn't gotten the job than have and all they have to show for it is a bill for $5000-$7000 and a type rating that is virtually useless.

It is detrimental to the industry to have you pay for the type. It may not be to the company but it is to the pilots. Would it be detrimental if southwest made you pay for your upgrade? Imagine if all airlines required you to be typed or quallified to fly their airplane. Let's add it up.

United 737 type, 320 type, 727 FE (old), DC-10 FE
Continental 737 type, 75/67 type 777 type
American 737 type M-80, type
Northwest DC-9 type, 320 type
Delta MD-80 type, 737 type
Southwest 737 type
Airtran 717 type
Frontier 320 type
JetBlue 320 type
FedEx 727 FE, DC-10Fe, A300
UPS 727 FE, 747 FE, 757

You would need to have a 727, 737,747FE, 75/67, 777, 300, 320, dc9, DC10 type ratings or FE certificates.

I hear the argument that says you have to think of it as getting your masters degree but dammn that would be one expensive masters.

On a side note I don't think southwest will ever change it because all of their pilots have already payed for it and they aren't going anywhere. Why would they give something up to get something that wouldn't do them (individually) any good.