GoJet question
#151
Its not worth much. Fact is... TS and GJ are likely the same company (seniority list) this time next year. I know both unions are diligently working on it. I can't wait to fly with a GJ'er. I hope you end up on the street again. Call it a flame if you wish, but I truly wish that upon you. Heard from a flight manager that 11 pilots have gone from TS to GJ (i think all furloughs). How does that make any sense?!?!?! Your "growth" covers our routes and keeps me and others downgraded and your fellow classmates on the streets! Congrats on your growth boys!
#152
Heard from a flight manager that 11 pilots have gone from TS to GJ (i think all furloughs). How does that make any sense?!?!?! Your "growth" covers our routes and keeps me and others downgraded and your fellow classmates on the streets! Congrats on your growth boys!
Whip Saw
#153
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 781
Everything you've said supports my last statement!
No, they are not the same at all. CHQ, Republic and Shuttle are one seniority list. The holding company cannot say to one pilot group, "fine, if you don't want to take a pay cut, we'll give the flying to another division."
Yes they are the same, an alter ego. The difference is that the pilots said yes to ****ty pay for big shiny airplanes
Well, I'd say that is a pretty big difference. First, Republic is an alter ego to who? However, once again you're saying "screw them". Screw TSA, who could have got a better contract than you Day 1 at GoJet if mgmt couldn't have depended on you guys flying for pennies. Screw the rest of the industry who is fighting for higher wages, not lower. BTW, do you know the definition of "whipsaw"?
\
Now, why in the world would a pilot group pass on more flying? More flying is good for the company and for the industry, right?
Here's the key: flying bigger jets for the same pay is NOT good for the pilot group. That is why TSA passed on the flying.
Let me gues, you're 26 year hold who thinks he's got it all figured out right? Talk to the guys that have been in the business for 30/40 years, they'll tell you that fighting with management doesn't get anywhere, they will always get their way. You're right, its much better to give into mgmt and hinder other pilots than fight with mgmt. ("Screw them") And especially at a regional where pilots are not only on the bottom of the unions priority but also with no leverage. I have no problem with paying my dues, but get a clue about what you're doing to YOUR future (you should understand this with your selfish attitude). The worse the regional pay is, the worse the major pay is. Again, its mgmt saying, why should I pay you X when that guy over there is willing to do it for Y?
Yes, but not a pilot's union. (Yes, I know, ALPA has its problem's too)
What? Who cares? It keeps the company from screwing with you.
And allows you to say, "GoJet's union now...so that makes it OK to go there" It doesn't.
Yes, the pay is comparable....
...to contracts negotiated after a major aviation catastrophe.
Those of us in contract negotiations are not going to settle for that pay, but GoJet did, AND with some of the worst work rules in the industry.
This is a typical BS argument wich doesn't mean anything, not anything special. I dont know, I think that being able to take care of my family in the future is pretty special. I may not have a wife and kids now, but I am smart enough to know I will in the future. The less you settle for, the less we all make in the future, and the less I can provide for my future family. Talk to the rest of the regionals who have been here for decades, remember GJ came after them. Get your history straight. It was pure arrogance at the majors that created the regionals(ok, mixed with some "we don't want two pay scales") And if I can remind you that GJ has all the basics that are needed in a regional contract. And I really love how you guys get your jollies off by saying the WORST work rules in the industry, keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. Got me there, I've never read the contract. But I know that we at TSA have some pretty bad work rules and yours arent any better than ours.
Yes, you are. Indirectly, you are part of the problem of the race to the bottom.
That's very comical. What about the rest of the regionals? Howbout places like colgan that fly 75 seaters for 50 seat pay? How about skywest wich is almost doing half of UAs flying. CRJ9s for 22 per hour. I'm sorry but if you're a regional pilot you have no say in the race to the bottom argument, you're flying mainline flying
We are all part of that bigger problem, yes. But you just rationalized again..."its ok for me to say "screw you" because X airline is doing ____" And someone correct me if im wrong, but I believe skywest has duty rigs...? And as I've heard some of the best QOL in the industry.
No, you're not just hurting TSA pilots, you're hurting all pilots including yourself! What leg does any other pilot group have to stand on in negotiations if management knows that there are GoJetter's etc willing to work for less?
Uh dude, we make more than TSA and get 10-18 days off per month. I'm not sure how that's hurting others.
Again, research "whipsaw". And saying you make more than TSA means nothing because you are comparing 50 to 70 seaters, and we've been without a contract for 2+ years.
..
...GoJet is using you.
Even if you do get your hours and get out, it is on the backs of everyone else who wasn't willing to fly for nothing.
I can't really argue this one because I have no idea what you're trying to say
Like a prostitute saying, "I'm only using these guys for the money" when really, its the guys using the girls.
No, because if you really had to feed your family, you wouldn't be able to do it at this pay. You'd be working at QuikTrip for $42,500 a year, waiting out your furlough. There really is money outside aviation...and a lot of it doesn't even require a college degree...but you didn't need that to go to GoJet anyway!
again hopefully you're not some 20 year old that still relys on your parents financially giving out advice on how people should live their lives, actually, you were right the first time, I'm 26, on my own, and know everything. but times like these where no one (quiktrip, home depot, starbucks, whole foods, the container store, all hiring AND in the top 50 places to work) is hiring, you really need to be in someone elses shoes, untill then you're in no position to judge. (I'll be on the street when we give the planes back to Eagle. Already have made contacts at a couple of these places) My deal is that I've applied everywhere else, theres money outside flying during my time off I found that finding a job is not as easy as it seems. In all honesty I would have gotten a min wage job (do you live in st louis? i'll give you a place where you can make $42k)but they told us that it was going to be at least a year before we might be called back.
Besides these, there are many more things that GoJetters will say to justify going there, but here is the bottom line, unless you live under a rock: It may come across your mind in a different fashion, like "I don't care what they think of me," but the meaning is the same.
The bottom line is that GJ will double by next year. Noone cares about this TSA deal especially once they find out what happened. The only people that care or who think they care are the 20 something year olds who have no idea how airlines work that by fighting with management, they will eventually turn their airline into Southwest. No one has to justify anything, guys are coming over here, it's a real nice place to be. By next year I'll still be short about 1000 hour for upgrade but I'll be in the top third FO list with 15-18 days off. They just told us 15-20 new hires per month until at least next spring.
Well as long as you get yours!
No, they are not the same at all. CHQ, Republic and Shuttle are one seniority list. The holding company cannot say to one pilot group, "fine, if you don't want to take a pay cut, we'll give the flying to another division."
Yes they are the same, an alter ego. The difference is that the pilots said yes to ****ty pay for big shiny airplanes
Well, I'd say that is a pretty big difference. First, Republic is an alter ego to who? However, once again you're saying "screw them". Screw TSA, who could have got a better contract than you Day 1 at GoJet if mgmt couldn't have depended on you guys flying for pennies. Screw the rest of the industry who is fighting for higher wages, not lower. BTW, do you know the definition of "whipsaw"?
\
Now, why in the world would a pilot group pass on more flying? More flying is good for the company and for the industry, right?
Here's the key: flying bigger jets for the same pay is NOT good for the pilot group. That is why TSA passed on the flying.
Let me gues, you're 26 year hold who thinks he's got it all figured out right? Talk to the guys that have been in the business for 30/40 years, they'll tell you that fighting with management doesn't get anywhere, they will always get their way. You're right, its much better to give into mgmt and hinder other pilots than fight with mgmt. ("Screw them") And especially at a regional where pilots are not only on the bottom of the unions priority but also with no leverage. I have no problem with paying my dues, but get a clue about what you're doing to YOUR future (you should understand this with your selfish attitude). The worse the regional pay is, the worse the major pay is. Again, its mgmt saying, why should I pay you X when that guy over there is willing to do it for Y?
Yes, but not a pilot's union. (Yes, I know, ALPA has its problem's too)
What? Who cares? It keeps the company from screwing with you.
And allows you to say, "GoJet's union now...so that makes it OK to go there" It doesn't.
Yes, the pay is comparable....
...to contracts negotiated after a major aviation catastrophe.
Those of us in contract negotiations are not going to settle for that pay, but GoJet did, AND with some of the worst work rules in the industry.
This is a typical BS argument wich doesn't mean anything, not anything special. I dont know, I think that being able to take care of my family in the future is pretty special. I may not have a wife and kids now, but I am smart enough to know I will in the future. The less you settle for, the less we all make in the future, and the less I can provide for my future family. Talk to the rest of the regionals who have been here for decades, remember GJ came after them. Get your history straight. It was pure arrogance at the majors that created the regionals(ok, mixed with some "we don't want two pay scales") And if I can remind you that GJ has all the basics that are needed in a regional contract. And I really love how you guys get your jollies off by saying the WORST work rules in the industry, keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. Got me there, I've never read the contract. But I know that we at TSA have some pretty bad work rules and yours arent any better than ours.
Yes, you are. Indirectly, you are part of the problem of the race to the bottom.
That's very comical. What about the rest of the regionals? Howbout places like colgan that fly 75 seaters for 50 seat pay? How about skywest wich is almost doing half of UAs flying. CRJ9s for 22 per hour. I'm sorry but if you're a regional pilot you have no say in the race to the bottom argument, you're flying mainline flying
We are all part of that bigger problem, yes. But you just rationalized again..."its ok for me to say "screw you" because X airline is doing ____" And someone correct me if im wrong, but I believe skywest has duty rigs...? And as I've heard some of the best QOL in the industry.
No, you're not just hurting TSA pilots, you're hurting all pilots including yourself! What leg does any other pilot group have to stand on in negotiations if management knows that there are GoJetter's etc willing to work for less?
Uh dude, we make more than TSA and get 10-18 days off per month. I'm not sure how that's hurting others.
Again, research "whipsaw". And saying you make more than TSA means nothing because you are comparing 50 to 70 seaters, and we've been without a contract for 2+ years.
..
...GoJet is using you.
Even if you do get your hours and get out, it is on the backs of everyone else who wasn't willing to fly for nothing.
I can't really argue this one because I have no idea what you're trying to say
Like a prostitute saying, "I'm only using these guys for the money" when really, its the guys using the girls.
No, because if you really had to feed your family, you wouldn't be able to do it at this pay. You'd be working at QuikTrip for $42,500 a year, waiting out your furlough. There really is money outside aviation...and a lot of it doesn't even require a college degree...but you didn't need that to go to GoJet anyway!
again hopefully you're not some 20 year old that still relys on your parents financially giving out advice on how people should live their lives, actually, you were right the first time, I'm 26, on my own, and know everything. but times like these where no one (quiktrip, home depot, starbucks, whole foods, the container store, all hiring AND in the top 50 places to work) is hiring, you really need to be in someone elses shoes, untill then you're in no position to judge. (I'll be on the street when we give the planes back to Eagle. Already have made contacts at a couple of these places) My deal is that I've applied everywhere else, theres money outside flying during my time off I found that finding a job is not as easy as it seems. In all honesty I would have gotten a min wage job (do you live in st louis? i'll give you a place where you can make $42k)but they told us that it was going to be at least a year before we might be called back.
Besides these, there are many more things that GoJetters will say to justify going there, but here is the bottom line, unless you live under a rock: It may come across your mind in a different fashion, like "I don't care what they think of me," but the meaning is the same.
The bottom line is that GJ will double by next year. Noone cares about this TSA deal especially once they find out what happened. The only people that care or who think they care are the 20 something year olds who have no idea how airlines work that by fighting with management, they will eventually turn their airline into Southwest. No one has to justify anything, guys are coming over here, it's a real nice place to be. By next year I'll still be short about 1000 hour for upgrade but I'll be in the top third FO list with 15-18 days off. They just told us 15-20 new hires per month until at least next spring.
Well as long as you get yours!
#154
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 781
Its not worth much. Fact is... TS and GJ are likely the same company (seniority list) this time next year. I know both unions are diligently working on it. I can't wait to fly with a GJ'er. I hope you end up on the street again. Call it a flame if you wish, but I truly wish that upon you. Heard from a flight manager that 11 pilots have gone from TS to GJ (i think all furloughs). How does that make any sense?!?!?! Your "growth" covers our routes and keeps me and others downgraded and your fellow classmates on the streets! Congrats on your growth boys!
#155
Its not preaching, its educating. Asking people to research what they are getting into and understand the long term ramifications.
What I do effects other people.
We have to find what works in the long term as well as the short term.
What am I going to do?
Well, I am going to make nice with you if my union says I'm supposed to. I'm going to reward you for jumping ship. Because if thats what it takes for the good of the industry, that's what I'll do. I look long term.
What I do effects other people.
We have to find what works in the long term as well as the short term.
What am I going to do?
Well, I am going to make nice with you if my union says I'm supposed to. I'm going to reward you for jumping ship. Because if thats what it takes for the good of the industry, that's what I'll do. I look long term.
#156
gj wasn't or isnt flying a 70 seater from oord to sbn? cmon...your so naive. we wont be flyin for american much longer. but of course you dont want a merger. your life would be made miserable by us. deservedly so.
#157
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 781
Haha a TSA guy wants to be Gojet. Look tough guy, if or when you guys get to merge with us. There will be so much animosity you better carry a whole book of I am concerned sheets. It's going to be intersting but I would imagine we'd still fly the respective certificate. Still I highly doubt it would happen, why would TSA stop flying for AA and what's the incentives for the unions, one of them will be a loser in the deal.
#158
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 483
Why aren't guys who go to Mesa treated like crap by the rest of the pilot group? They know what they're getting into. By them taking a job for the crappiest pay/work rules in the industry, they're showing management that they really don't need a new contract any time soon. So those pilots are knowingly hurting the chances of Mesa pilots getting a better contract. In turn, them getting a less than stellar contract causes you to get less than you want in the future too. But since Mesa isn't an alter-ego airline, all is forgiven.
If pilots really want to try to stop what's happening at GoJet, I recommend the TSA pilots get together and actually do something. Stage a mass sick-out. Quit b*tching about it and do something. I don't care what the courts tell you to do or what ALPA tells you to do or what management tells you to do. Without the pilots, the planes don't fly and management will realize pretty quickly how much they need their pilots. I guarantee it'll never happen. The only thing people get unified about is complaining about what other pilot groups are doing to them.
If pilots really want to try to stop what's happening at GoJet, I recommend the TSA pilots get together and actually do something. Stage a mass sick-out. Quit b*tching about it and do something. I don't care what the courts tell you to do or what ALPA tells you to do or what management tells you to do. Without the pilots, the planes don't fly and management will realize pretty quickly how much they need their pilots. I guarantee it'll never happen. The only thing people get unified about is complaining about what other pilot groups are doing to them.
#159
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 483
Haha a TSA guy wants to be Gojet. Look tough guy, if or when you guys get to merge with us. There will be so much animosity you better carry a whole book of I am concerned sheets. It's going to be intersting but I would imagine we'd still fly the respective certificate. Still I highly doubt it would happen, why would TSA stop flying for AA and what's the incentives for the unions, one of them will be a loser in the deal.
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