johnso29

Yes, Comair & Mesaba are now both owned by DAL. It is still two COMPLETELY different scenarios.

TBucket

Yes, DAL isn't a person, for one. Also, Comair wasn't created specifically to take flying from the pilot group at mesaba... (or vice versa)

RJSAviator76

LOL Anga... you crack me up. You really, really do. Ya know, part of the reason aside from trying to open your eyes is entertainment of watching you get all defensive and ranting the same thing.

I see you're still mesmerized with the concept of Trans States and ALPA, and the whole airline thing. Understandable for a low time guy. Let me give you a little dose of reality, something that you may or may not understand.

First of all, again, I am sorry this has happened to you guys, and especially to a youngin like yourself with no other experience. As I'm sure you've noticed, no experience can come and bite you in many ways: from not being able to find another job to possibly coming back to bite you while you're working simply because you don't have any decision-making flight experience, but that's drifting away. Here's the sad, sorry truth:

This whole brotherhood that ALPA talks about, this whole union chest-thumping is really all bunch of hot air. We all talk about unity, and how as pilots we need to stick together, but in reality, pilots are the most selfish and egotistical group of people. They'll tell you what you want to hear, but won't do a thing if it comes at their expense. Need proof? I don't know how familiar you are with what happened after 9/11 furloughs, and all the open time getting picked up by guys left and right. Hell, we were fortunate at Aloha that we capped our flying at 80 hours PERIOD. No open time pick-up and we couldn't get junior-manned on our days off, yet when the company would furlough, we'd get so short on crews, the scheduling would call and offer all sorts of deals just so they wouldn't have to recall pilots - and you'd be surprised how many took them up on their offers. How many Trans States pilots are flying 90-95 hour months while you guys have people on the street? Think they want to see those hours go down to min guarantee to ensure you as a junior pilot keep your job? I'm sure every pilot on this board will say they want to support the junior man, and that's all fine and dandy, but let's look at the results. Disappointing, aren't they?

Pilots will only look out for number 1 first, and then if they have some to spare, they'll be righteous and virtuous... but only if it doesn't affect them, yet on these pilot boards, we're all the most virtuous and righteous pilots in the world as we would never step on anyone else.

Open scabbing might be about the only no-no that our selfish nature as pilots would accept, but even that can't be accurately measured considering how every pilot group caved in when faced with brutal concessions. Nature of the beast, kiddo... right or wrong, it's reality.

Now, to go back to this whole GoJet thing, when they first started, and yes, I was a dues-paying ALPA member back then, it was viewed as an alter-ego and we all supported your plight. We also took time to fix our scope clauses so that things like what happened at Mesa and Trans States don't happen to us. At the same time, the hiring was still strong elsewhere.

While the hiring was still going strong, the NMB decision came down and they declared GoJet to be a separate airline. Right or wrong, doesn't really matter - ALPA seemed to have accepted the ruling.

Now... GoJet seemed to have a relatively difficult time attracting experienced pilots to upgrade them simply because experienced guys were either already regional captains or hired at majors or corporate gigs that pay better than the regional left seat anyway.

Then oil spikes up, and Aloha, ATA, Champion, Skybus, Maxjet, EOS all collapse dumping thousands of super experienced pilots on the street. Furthermore, UAL dumps almost a thousand pilots out themselves, Continental furloughs, so does Airtran, and then we get to see this doozy of Republic replacing Midwest pilots. At the same time, Mesaba and GoJet were the only two places hiring. Mesaba stopped hiring and now you have GoJet, Lynx and Great Lakes hiring. That's it.

Now... remember what I was telling you about pilots only looking out for number one? You want them to think how they're affecting TSA pilots. Frankly, most couldn't give rats about you, simply because: a) you're not on strike and b) NMB ruled against you. All the excuse people need. You want virtue to rule? Do you realistically expect a 15,000 hour ATA 757 captain who lost it all to really care that he might possibly put you, a 400 hour TSA pilot, on the street by taking a job at GoJet? First of all, good luck convincing him that's the case, and second of all, your expectations of virtue and righteousness are... well, misguided at best. In other words, you're setting your expectations of the US pilot population way too high, and it's likely because of inexperience and idealism that you haven't seen shattered yet.

See, it's easy for a DAL/NWA A320 captain to pass judgement here and be virtuous about GoJet, it doesn't affect him - he's taken care of, so he can afford to be "virtuous."

Now, you often make a mistake of thinking I'm a GoJet fan. Far from it. I think it's a dirtbag outfit just like Trans States or Mesa or any other regional in the U.S. abusing its pilots. I'm simply trying to open your eyes to see the reality instead of illusion, and trying to get you to act accordingly.

145mule

RJS, You bring up several good points.

The sad part of this industry is that there is always someone out there willing to do your job for less. It happens at the airlines and in the corporate flying world. In fact it happens in Agriculture as well... farmers will undercut other farmers just to say "I farm more land." It is the equivalent of "Shiny Jet Syndrome." I am not saying because it happens in other industries that it is ok.... I just realize thats the way it is.

By the way, for all you guys who claim that you are going to GoJet because you can't find a "descent job" I know several farmers who are looking for help, and the pay is good. Even tractors have autopilots now....

NightIP

Solid post.

bertramcheeks22

It's quite refreshing when someone can contribute a well written and intelligent post such as this. Thank you for sparing me the headache of reading a post with spelling and grammatical errors on a board full of professionals with COLLEGE DEGREES.

Thunder1

RJS,

Excellent attempt at educating the rose colored glass wearing crowd. Especially the likes of: Purpleanga, Positive Rate and Copperhead. What you said is the most honest post I have seen yet on APC. Continue to throw in a dose of reality on these websites. Thanks.

And to the rose colored glass crowd......How is it that someone who has never met you is supposed to feel sorry for your plight and not take a job that they feel is in their best interest in order to help you out? Laughable idea to start with!!
In case you have forgotten..... you live in a democracy and a relatively free market capitalistic economy where the underlying operating premise is that each person acts in their own interest to achieve what they believe is best for them. I whole-heartedly agree that the NMB made the wrong decision in their ruling regarding GoJet; however, that is like crying over spilled milk. GoJet management won this battle, labor lost this battle, and whether you like it or not GoJet is a legally legitimate carrier that even ALPA supports. I agree that pilots need to work together and fight for better work rules, pay, etc.; however, you need to worry about the next battle and quit ruining your life by stewing over battles lost. Move on to the next winnable battle -- this GoJet battle is over.

Copperhed51

Once again the senior pilot comes on here and tells us how his generation has screwed up the industry and tells the junior pilots to quit trying to fix it. Awesome. Thanks for the advice.

Thunder1

Copperhead,

Never once in my post did I tell you to quit trying to fix it. I merely reminded you that you are still fighting last years battle that has already been lost. Move on my friend. In addition, you make the mistake of assuming I am a "senior pilot". If only that were true I would not be furloughed and heading back to the military. Best of luck and I sure hope when I come back to commercial aviation that your generation has all the problems fixed. Good luck!

ExperimentalAB

To RJS et al...Some regional folk may be young and even naive, but the old salty mainliners on here have shown just how apathetic they've become to the business; It is no wonder this industry has sunk this low

I hope to always have that fight in me, and to always remain idealistic in the preservation of my career.