RJSAviator76

LOL... you STILL don't get it, do ya kiddo?

Don't tell me about alter-ego, about GoJet's "sole purpose", and defending the profession... tell THEM:

http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2006/33n009.pdf

Those are the guys you have to convince... not me. That's all I'm trying to tell you. I'm also trying to tell other hotheads that if they want to remove GoJet from their jumpseats to man up and do it right - by requesting that GoJet be removed from their reciprocal agreement list, and not resort to chicken shiite tactic of playing childish jumpseat games.

Also, it would appear to me that GoJet's contract doesn't appear to be worse than yours, or industry-dragging. Actually, it appears to be better than yours in several different areas. Here's their contract. Enjoy the reading:

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/o...Itemid,85.html

Again, you don't have to convince me - it doesn't concern me or affect me... You on the other hand have an uphill battle, and you might as well fight the fight that you could possibly win. Do you think you can accomplish anything throwing fits around the Internet? Like I told you earlier, you're embarrassing your pilot group with your ramblings... Instead, you might want to actually get involved with your union and volunteer your time towards accomplishing your goals. I guarantee you, you'll learn more than you think, and you'll make real contributions... Being passionate helps, but you'll have to learn to have an open mind. Once you learn that the world is actually gray and not black/white, you'll be amazed at how you'll see the world. Until then... don't give yourself a coronary!

Purpleanga

HAHAHAAHA, And you said you did work for ALPA, that's pretty scary. Why do you think TSA has the current contract, which is exactly the same as the "new" GJ contract? 10days off 15 hour days, JA, not rigs, no nothing, oh wait it's block or better which TSA does have. Avereage to below average industry pay... Have you read the memos that our MEC sends us every month that say management has continued to use GJ as a whipsaw in negotiations?? Why do you think GJ exists in the first place? For the hell of it? Oh man you are completely clueless.

de727ups

"Those are the guys you have to convince... not me."

RSA, very well said. I think the gojet haters here are missing the big picture you present. Nothing new about that. Keep up with the common sense facts and maybe a few will see the big picture. Kudos....

Copperhed51

You are only partially correct about who we need to convince about GJ. If you're of the belief that pilots who to go GoJetS are enabling management to justify their undercutting and circumventing of the TSA contract, then you'd have to agree that it's wise to educate pilots of that position so they can make an informed decision not to go there. It's also somewhat of a public service for people to put this information out there so that any pilot who goes there knows the reason they may be treated poorly in the future.

On the other hand, I completely agree that it's about time we got airlines to remove GJ from their reciprocol jumpseat agreement list. Once I finish up IOE at my new job, I'm going to try to talk to some of my union reps about how we can get this done. I'd recommend everybody else out there do the same thing. I refuse to ride on a GJ plane anyway. If GJ is the only choice out there, I rent a car and drive to another airport.

Additionally, I think it's interesting that some of the guys who have been around the industry for quite a while come on this board and act as though their opinion is more important than any of the younger pilots' opinions. This from the guys that willingly gave up flying to the regionals and helped the industry along in its downward slide. Now they come on here and some of them defend GoJetS. That just shows that they still haven't learned much of anything in all their time. I suppose that the flipside of that may be that when they've tried to do the right thing, they've just ended up getting screwed...I dunno. I just find it ironic though.

TBucket

It's hard to see some sort of miraculous "big picture" where gojet is ok when you're watching your friends hit the street while they hire like crazy. It might be easy to dismiss the whole thing when you're not involved, but for us at TSA it's still personal. They're costing us our jobs. Still. It's not ok.

CaptKrunch

You say that like TSA is the only one furloughing.

RJSAviator76

Yep, 2 ALPA carriers, and our working agreements smoked both TSA and GoJet's by miles.

My... again, you STILL don't get it. Trans States has NEVER led the industry in anything. However, they've been the industry laggards long before GoJet was ever an idea. One saving grace, and the reason why my friends there ended up at Trans States was because of then West Coast basing that's now long gone.

I'll tell you kiddo, why GoJet exists. It exists to have gotten around the APA scope limiting 70 seaters to Eagle, in order to be able to secure UAL Express 70 seat flying. It had to have become a separate certificate, and it was the pilots that chose to ignore ALPA's advice to secure the flying under one seniority list and then seek improvements down the road. Right or wrong, Trans States pilots made their decision and they have to live with it - cost of democracy. Yes, the choices were bad or worse. Sadly, you chose worse. Lesson learned - if you fail to follow a paid legal advice and instead follow your hothead emotions, you have a much higher chance of getting burned. That's the case in any legal proceeding - criminal, civil, labor, etc. Trans States pilots chose the emotional path. Sad to say, that's what happened here, and you're living the consequences of it.

Some good came out of it though, it caused my old airline as well as some others to improve scope language as a result of Mesa/Freedom and Trans States/GoJet fiascos.

Now, anga, I told you my story. Why don't you tell us yours? Dare I take a guess? Early 20's... graduate of some university flying program with bridge to have gotten hired by Trans States with low time? Or perhaps ALL ATPS with RJ transition course? Why do you refuse to share your background with us? It helps to understand where you're coming from since clearly you don't have any other knowledge of the industry outside of these two bottom-dweller outfits. So, please enlighten us.

Purpleanga

Let it go.... you have nothing, other than rationalization all of the above are classic lies. Bottom line GJ is an alter-ego formed to circumvent a union CBA. Doesn't really matter how it was started. TSA did nothing but vote down an unacceptable offer that would have been voted down by any other pilot group. Who would have known that Hulas would actually hire street replacement workers? And did he HAVE to? NO! GJ was meant to be an alter ego from the begging, a whipsaw. Everyone saw that. Do you actually think TSA guys wanted to "give" flying away?? The AA scope is fine but it's how the place was staffed and the fact that it became a separate alter ego is the problem. GJ has been used as a whipsaw since day one. You are some corporate guy and I think you said overseas. Stay out there, stop being a pest and ranting on these boards, your opinions mean nothing since you're not in it. We are trying to solve this and we need unity. And I can tell you that TSA pilots are united and it looks as if the GJ guys are offering support at least now that there's a strike center in STL.

johnso29

The TSA/GoJet situation is different in the fact that HK is slowly transferring flying from the TSA pilot group over to the GoJet pilot group. It's much different then other carriers that are furloughing right now. When one pilot group has to watch their fellow pilots hit the street while another pilot group (who is owned and operated by the SAME COMPANY!) is hiring and taking new airplanes, it's VERY different.

Mach93

So I guess its ok for Mesaba to take Comair flying. Mesaba was hiring to staff the aircraft they were getting from Comair causing Comair to furlough. Where is the outcry against Mesaba?