Wags808

Did you think that one up all by yourself?

iceman49

Probably not, but a waste of time, like this thread.

JohnBurke

Considering it was created by a private pilot who elected to tilt at windmills, and contacted a union to which he does not belong and with which he has no standing, over a pointless, idiotic issue, yes it is a waste of time. Moreover with the myriad hot button topics that really do matter, to pick something so stupid as beards speaks volumes about the orbit in which the original poster's mind is presently circling.

Training to be an airline pilot? Focus on airline pilot things. Learn that unions negotiate contracts, not beards, and it's a cause so microscopic in importance as to boggle the mind that one would be so uninformed, bored, or removed as to consider it, let alone start a thread or--good god--a petition.

Duty and rest: there's something work getting to know. Safety issues. Pay. Job protection. He could even focus on fretting over the retirement age if he's really got to tap dance around St. Hiccupus, the patron saint of lost causes in aviation...but beards?

The Taliban must be losing, if they're looking for outside work. Coming soon to an airline near you.

Wags808

Are beards a big deal? No, of course not. It's not going to change safety or pay or job security, as you mention, and is a personal choice of individuals that they don't get to make if they're a pilot. Whether or not you grow some facial hair has no place in the company rule book as long as pilots aren't looking like hobos. It's that simple.

And honestly, the "important" issues you talk about are as perennial and never-ending as they get. Why not make a few minor adjustments to the rules along the way?

galaxy flyer

First, no, it's not that simple. In our culture professionals with high, even life or death, responsibilities are expected to act, dress and appear to a standard that looks like like the one you see.

Second, You need to learn the basics of union, for that any, negotiation--every perceived change to benefit one party can and will be cause for a "giveback". ALPA: "our crews want relaxed facial hair standards". Company: "you want beards, how about 3.5% hourly increase instead of 3.65%?" The two parties could spend a month of Sundays on that one.

GF

rickair7777

It's hard to find videos of burning O2 saturated beards, but it it would look a lot like steel wool. They're both flammable under the conditions and the flame would propagate in the same manner.

Don't believe me? Saturate a beard in O2 and light t on fire. Maybe you can try it one of your FO's in a couple years after ALPA fixes the beard ban...

Wags808

You're correct that I thought the simple part was unanimous agreement among pilots that it is a dumb rule and the idea that beards are unprofessional is false.

Regardless of the union/negotiation talk, the idea that someone would come out and oppose allowing beards/support the current rule is mind-boggling.

JohnBurke

And yet you took it upon yourself to overstep your bounds, to make contact with a union to which you pay no dues and have no standing, and have started a petition which shows gross ignorance not only of the industry, but of the process to make the change you seek.

By doing what you're doing, you're sending a clear message to those around you, and it's not a good message. It says bad things about you. Not content with that, you not only start a thread and a petition, but enter a board populated with working professionals, and expound the same drivel. Why not stand on your roof and scream out "I'm a dumbass?" You'd garner less attention and make yourself look far less foolish.

Company dress, company policy, and uniform standards are neither set nor created by the union. Rather than throwing punches in the dark, you'd have some tiny measure of voice if you wrote to the company directly with your request. Of course, if you intend to work for that company, you'd be better off keeping your pen off paper, your fingers off the keyboard, and your mouth shut. Pick your battles. Beards? Really? You don't want to pick something really critical, like crayon boxes in each seat back, or a new brand of toilet paper in the lavatories? Beards?

Get some nose rings in there while you're at it, or some of those gigantic hoops people are shoving in their ears these days. If you really want to make a change in the industry, get approval for nipple rings and piercings in the security lines, perhaps a special authorization. Perhaps you could lobby for pilots to shave their seniority number into their haircut, like a football player with his jersey. You may be onto something here.

Of course, it's something exceedingly idiiotic, but there you are. Before you tilt at any more windmills, take some time to grow up, focus on things which actually matter (like learning to fly) and get on with life. Let actual working pilots worry about the beard issue, because you're not a working pilot and your comments lead one to question whether you're old enough to grow a beard.

How a pilot presents to the public is very much a concern of the employer. The military has grooming standards. Airlines have grooming standards. Many employers have grooming standards. If it troubles you, find another industry. That's not an issue presently, as your'e not in the industry and have no leg upon which to stand. Your dog, as they say, is not in this fight, and in case you failed to take note, there is no fight save for what is in your head.

What you do on your own time is up to you, within reason. How you look, how you behave, how you dress, how you carry yourself, and your grooming is what the company says it will be on company time. This is a lesson you will one day learn, if you eventually become a working professional pilot. As a private pilot, feel free to attempt to grow facial hair, and if able, grow it to your knees if it floats your boat.

We see frequent "adjustments," but generally focus on things which matter. Issues which are constantly in the forefront are there because they are important.

Beards are not in the forefront, nor are they important. Moving on.

RI830

This thread proves the idiocy of the pilot profession and that we apparently have too much time on our hands.

I do find it comical that the site ad at the bottom of this thread is this......

Climbto450

I would vote against that rule. The traveling public expects a certain presence and look in their pilots. Mountain man just isn't it. Look sharp, take pride in your appearance, respect your uniform all the signs of a professional..