Notices
Hangar Talk For non-aviation-related discussion and aviation threads that don't belong elsewhere

Tool of the day

Old 09-07-2018, 11:00 AM
  #10601  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Default

It’s easy to critique people from the other side of a keyboard. Also, while I do harbor a general distaste for the narsacistic nature of social media and YouTube “influencers”, I don’t think the video poster had that intention. I think it’s an honest video to help mil pilots looking at crossing over, while also serving as a marketing platform for his books.

Problem is it’s not titled that way so anyone can see it. The other issue is that he tells the general public that being airline pilot is easy. In the 20min video that must have been said at least 10 times. Basically he gets little satisfaction from the job and does it for the money (to be clear, we all do it for the money). That feeds the stereotype that we and our unions are trying to fight which is we are over paid bus drivers. In a time when we are fighting constant threats to discredit our importance, level of responsibility, erode our pay and benefits, and legislation to look into single pilot operations, this video doesn’t help our cause.

According to the video a fighter pilot does a much harder job for a whole lot less money. So that begs the question, why are we paying airline pilots this much? Different angle but the same damage as the Instagram and you tube stars of Ryan Air and regional airlines that glamorize the job while working for next to nothing.
Qotsaautopilot is offline  
Old 09-07-2018, 03:55 PM
  #10602  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 329
Default

Or rather, why are we paying fighter pilots so little?
Hossharris is offline  
Old 09-07-2018, 04:04 PM
  #10603  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Default

Originally Posted by Hossharris View Post
Or rather, why are we paying fighter pilots so little?
Id agree with that too.

Non-union and enough of a cool factor to draw more than enough people in just for the type of work
Qotsaautopilot is offline  
Old 09-07-2018, 04:13 PM
  #10604  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 32,523
Default

Originally Posted by Hossharris View Post
Or rather, why are we paying fighter pilots so little?
They get paid the same as any other service member, with some hazard pay (similar to other specialties), and retention pay (specific to airframe, as-needed to manage the force structure).

It's probably not practical for the government to give them legacy airline pay, instead they should try to manage the career path so as to be something people want to do. But actually the government really only needs to keep them for the 10-15 years between ADSC and retirement eligibility. After 20+ years, they only need a relatively small handful of colonels, and even those for only a few more years. Very few officers can get anywhere near age 60, and you'd need a lot of stars on shoulder to even have a chance.

It's probably a losing battle to retain enough folks in this airline hiring climate. Instead, they need to make sure they attract them to the reserves, so if they ever really need them, they're available and current. IMO they might need to move some planes to the guard/reserve, since that's where all their pilots are headed anyway.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 09-07-2018, 05:27 PM
  #10605  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Aug 2017
Posts: 138
Default

Wow, where to start...
It ain't the pay; it's the loss of swagger. And time away from home.

The AF has 12,300 pilots; DL, UA and AA each exceed that. The USAF (or Navy/USMC) could easily pay Legacy pay rates by purchasing one less F-35/B-21/pick-a-plane. But that won't solve the institutional problems that are at the core of the pilot shortage.

The US Post Office LOSES more money per year than the USAF annual budget for the entire nuclear force...money's not the issue.
Castle Bravo is online now  
Old 09-07-2018, 06:08 PM
  #10606  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 32,523
Default

Originally Posted by Castle Bravo View Post
Wow, where to start...
It ain't the pay; it's the loss of swagger. And time away from home.

The AF has 12,300 pilots; DL, UA and AA each exceed that. The USAF (or Navy/USMC) could easily pay Legacy pay rates by purchasing one less F-35/B-21/pick-a-plane. But that won't solve the institutional problems that are at the core of the pilot shortage.

The US Post Office LOSES more money per year than the USAF annual budget for the entire nuclear force...money's not the issue.
By "not practical" I didn't mean fiscally. It would be a political issue with the rest of the military (and the public). Targeted retention bonuses get after that somewhat, and justified by empirical retention data.

Like I said, plan B had better be keep them in the reserves and even that's not going so great.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 09-09-2018, 05:51 PM
  #10607  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 870
Default

Originally Posted by Castle Bravo View Post
The US Post Office LOSES more money per year than the USAF annual budget for the entire nuclear force...money's not the issue.
Don't forget, most of the USAF resents the heck out of the pilots and would freak the hell out if mil pilots were paid what they were actually worth (like doctors are, both mil and GS). People understand doctors getting paid a lot, but they absolutely freak out with jealousy and resentment if pilots get compensated at market value.

USAF absolutely HATES their pilots. Resentment is far too mild of a word. No way they'll ever get paid enough to retain them, so either the JOB is cool or the JOB sucks. Right now, the JOB sucks because it's mostly queep and very little flying, while working within an organization that hates you and twists the rules to ensure that pilots are measured for promotion with the exact same criteria as some shoe clerk desk jockey who works in a clean office, has nothing more stressful in their day than ensuring the coffee pot is cleaned occasionally yet still wears a utility uniform, and who might deploy once in their career to a rear echelon staff job.

Edit - This is nothing new. Look up Bill Mauldin's comics and his references to the stereotypical "REMF".
flensr is offline  
Old 09-09-2018, 06:58 PM
  #10608  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Aug 2017
Posts: 138
Default

I own, and cherish, a hardback copy of "Up Front" by Bill Mauldin. A true classic.
Castle Bravo is online now  
Old 09-10-2018, 03:35 AM
  #10609  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,709
Default

Originally Posted by flensr View Post
Don't forget, most of the USAF resents the heck out of the pilots and would freak the hell out if mil pilots were paid what they were actually worth (like doctors are, both mil and GS). People understand doctors getting paid a lot, but they absolutely freak out with jealousy and resentment if pilots get compensated at market value.

USAF absolutely HATES their pilots. Resentment is far too mild of a word. No way they'll ever get paid enough to retain them, so either the JOB is cool or the JOB sucks. Right now, the JOB sucks because it's mostly queep and very little flying, while working within an organization that hates you and twists the rules to ensure that pilots are measured for promotion with the exact same criteria as some shoe clerk desk jockey who works in a clean office, has nothing more stressful in their day than ensuring the coffee pot is cleaned occasionally yet still wears a utility uniform, and who might deploy once in their career to a rear echelon staff job.

Edit - This is nothing new. Look up Bill Mauldin's comics and his references to the stereotypical "REMF".
If only pilots accounted for the vast majority of General Officers even though, unlike their peers in maintenance, security, and others they rarely lead large groups until later in their career, they could change the system... Oh wait. Pilots run the Air Force.
CBreezy is online now  
Old 09-10-2018, 06:31 AM
  #10610  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 32,523
Default

Originally Posted by flensr View Post
Don't forget, most of the USAF resents the heck out of the pilots and would freak the hell out if mil pilots were paid what they were actually worth (like doctors are, both mil and GS). People understand doctors getting paid a lot, but they absolutely freak out with jealousy and resentment if pilots get compensated at market value.

USAF absolutely HATES their pilots. Resentment is far too mild of a word. No way they'll ever get paid enough to retain them, so either the JOB is cool or the JOB sucks. Right now, the JOB sucks because it's mostly queep and very little flying, while working within an organization that hates you and twists the rules to ensure that pilots are measured for promotion with the exact same criteria as some shoe clerk desk jockey who works in a clean office, has nothing more stressful in their day than ensuring the coffee pot is cleaned occasionally yet still wears a utility uniform, and who might deploy once in their career to a rear echelon staff job.

Edit - This is nothing new. Look up Bill Mauldin's comics and his references to the stereotypical "REMF".
There's some truth here. In the other services, almost everybody routinely goes over the horizon as a team for expeditionary operations as a matter of course. AF launches the warfighters, but most of the rest stay behind in their offices in CONUS and go home at 5:00 pm.
rickair7777 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Elvis90
Military
2
11-11-2010 09:25 AM
meloveboeing
Regional
5
10-02-2010 07:47 AM
kc135driver
United
119
08-24-2010 08:30 AM
exerauflyboy5
Flight Schools and Training
15
02-18-2009 08:29 PM
Busdriver
JetBlue
70
01-16-2006 10:32 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread